Quote: connie sutherland

2. Do you think my using of an old command ("come") during new command training is detrimental to his learning/confusing him?"

Yes, if you mean using it to release him from the new command. Because I want the dog to perceive that the marker is the release. The marker is always the release. After the marker is given, the dog can do whatever he wants .... the command is over. Before the marker is given, the command keeps happening.

Need to further clarify... I'm not using an old command to release, but using it between reps of the new command.

For example when training "mat" and I'm standing 5 ft away from the mat,

Me: "Mat"
Louie goes on mat.
Me: "Yes" + food reward
Louie remains on mat.
Me: "Come"
Louie comes to me.
Me: "Good/good boy" OR "Yes" + food reward
Me: "Louie, mat"
Louie goes on mat.
Me: "Yes" + food reward

Is the middle "come" command from the above scenario detrimental/confusing?

 Quote: simon tai

 Quote: connie sutherland

2. Do you think my using of an old command ("come") during new command training is detrimental to his learning/confusing him?"

Yes, if you mean using it to release him from the new command. Because I want the dog to perceive that the marker is the release. The marker is always the release. After the marker is given, the dog can do whatever he wants .... the command is over. Before the marker is given, the command keeps happening.

Need to further clarify... I'm not using an old command to release, but using it between reps of the new command.

For example when training "mat" and I'm standing 5 ft away from the mat,

Me: "Mat"
Louie goes on mat.
Me: "Yes" + food reward
Louie remains on mat.
Me: "Come"
Louie comes to me.
Me: "Good/good boy" OR "Yes" + food reward
Me: "Louie, mat"
Louie goes on mat.
Me: "Yes" + food reward

Is the middle "come" command from the above scenario detrimental/confusing?

OHHHH!

Heck, no, that's fine. I don't teach two new commands at the same time, but I sure do intersperse new ones with golden oldies to remind the dog (and me) of how well the dog learns commands and earns rewards!

Of course, you won't use "come" to release him from the mat after you start a little duration. Sorry -- that was what I thought you were saying.

Thanks for clarifying and previously breaking down the intermediate bridge! Will now be thinking/trying/picking out a new IB to use with Louie for duration purposes.

I think others will chime in too (lots of marker folks here), but I just wanted to add that using an IB is not cut-and-dried for me.

I often do not use one. OTOH, if I see that the dog might be losing focus a bit and I think that he can stick it out a bit more, that's a perfect time for me to verbally encourage. (I sometimes simply give the marker, ending it, if I see that the dog is either becoming confused about why he is still there or even just losing his focus, and I assume that I jumped ahead too fast. I back up.)

Motion commands lend themselves (to me) to using an IB. Kinda like cheering on a runner in a race!

But again, I think it's a highly individual thing -- individual to the dog, to the command, to the strength of focus at that time, and so on. Kinda like free-shaping, which (again for me) doesn't serve me well for all dogs and all situations but is perfect for some.

And I always start introducing duration with no IB. Maybe other folks might use it to kind of "charge" the IB by sticking one in when the duration is very minor. I haven't tried that. I start duration in such tiny increments that the IB wouldn't really even fit in, for me, yet.

This stuff is hard to get into writing!

I hope some of the much more experienced marker folks will chime in!

Like Connie I don't usually use the IB. I may praise verbally with a good dog but that depends on the dog. One of mine can't contain himself if I say much of anything but commands during training. He just doesn't need/can't handle any IB. It's just to exciting to him.
The other dog seems to respond, also like Connie's, during motion exercises. Heeling and recall for example.
If you want the marked to become a release from the "place" then use body language till the dog gets it.
Ex;
You send the do to it's "place", mark, reward but the dog stands there. Just pat your legs,clap or do something to excite the dog into coming to you. You wont have to give another command. He will catch on.
One question.
Are you going "TO" the dog to reward after the marker or are you tossing the reward?
I ask that because you then say you give a "come" command to bring the dog to you because it stays in place.
Your dog may very well think it "needs" to stay in place until you give the "come" command. (superstitious behavior).
The difference between my marker "yes" is that the dog knows the behavior is correct but we are continuing the games.
My "Ok" releases him from the games.

 Quote: bob scott

One question.
Are you going "TO" the dog to reward after the marker or are you tossing the reward?
I ask that because you then say you give a "come" command to bring the dog to you because it stays in place.
Your dog may very well think it "needs" to stay in place until you give the "come" command. (superstitious behavior).
The difference between my marker "yes" is that the dog knows the behavior is correct but we are continuing the games.
My "Ok" releases him from the games.

Thanks for your input Bob. To answer your question... I usually toss the reward to him on the mat. I think I started doing that for 2 reasons.

1. I eventually wanted to work duration into the "mat" (place) command and thought that would indirectly teach him duration on the mat.

2. Louie was hesitant/uncomfortable taking treats from my hand at first (scared rescue). He's less hesitant now but still a bit at time.

It's interesting to hear that some dogs work well with IBs while some don't (get too excited)... ahh the nuances of marker training.

Sounds like he has been programmed to wait there for the treat.
As for some dogs working better then others with the IB....well..it could just be how I do things.