Re: Rethinking spaying and neutering
[Re: Lauren Jeffery ]
#285594 - 07/18/2010 10:40 AM |
Webboard User
![](https://leerburg.com/webboard/images/avatars/paw.png)
![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png) ![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png) ![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png)
Reg: 09-28-2009
Posts: 487
Loc: Alaska
Offline |
|
One thing to keep in mind when looking at statistics about intact male dogs is that most 'responsible' pet owners listen to their vets advice and neuter their pets. These same 'responsible' owners also likely put more effort into training and containing their dogs as companion animals. 'Irresponsible' pet owners likely rarely bring their dogs to the vet, probably don't neuter, and do not put much effort into training their dogs as companion animals. Therefore, in most cases, (as with many statistics), not neutering is probably strongly linked to irresponsible owners, poorly trained dogs, and lack of containment. Therefore, it would be difficult to determine whether a dog being left intact ALONE is the cause of the increased aggressive/wandering/behavioral issues or if it's caused by human related care and training. The only way to do this would be via a long term control-test study. I've found these very very rare in the pet-dog scenario. One problem would be forming a valid control group...
That being said, I decided to spay my female and leave my male intact. She was about 2 when I spayed her, and from what I read in the literature the risks of spaying vs. the benefits of spaying at that age about equaled out (for females- for males the risks associated with neutering are slightly greater than the benefits in most cases).
My last dog was neutered before I adopted him. When my female shepherd went into heat he acted like an intact male. He constantly paced around the area she was contained, lost weight, hyperactive, just wanted to get to her. So, for him anyway, he would have gone after the ladies just as much as an intact male (at 12 years old and pretty sick at that time). Only he would've shot blanks. I'm not sure that every neutered male would behave as my last dog did, but at least two vets have told me that neutering will eliminate the sexual urges of a male dog when exposed to a female in heat. These vets claimed that neutering a male would reduce the roaming behavior displayed by intact males when they smell a receptive female.
In my experience, this was complete veterinary fantasy. Not sure what scientific basis they had for these claims.
Again, this is based on my personal experience. And I am not against neutering, at all. If it is done once the dog is mature the benefits/risks about equal out. And the risk of unplanned pregnancy is eliminated.
I am, however, strongly against the early spay/neuter practiced by many rescue groups (some on puppies under 8 weeks). I also think vets need to dig into the literature and think critically about the studies their statistics come from rather than give false or misleading information to dog owners who are honestly trying to do what is best for their pets.
The high rates of ligament issues in dogs has been linked to early spay/neuter (dogs who are neutered early tend to grow 'taller' due to increased bone growth, resulting in inappropriate joint and leg angles). Guess who profits from orthopedic surgery?
|
Top
|
Re: Rethinking spaying and neutering
[Re: Lauren Jeffery ]
#285597 - 07/18/2010 11:00 AM |
Webboard User
![](https://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/avatars/potted_flowers1.gif)
![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png) ![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png) ![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png)
Reg: 04-29-2004
Posts: 3825
Loc: Northeast
Offline |
|
Dog left to their own devices will act like DOGS!!!
It is up to the owners to train their dogs, intact or not. I can tell you that five of the dogs (6 dogs altogether) that have attacked my dogs, have NOT been intact. One I don't know. So I am not totally sure it makes THAT much difference. It depends on the dog. To me it is often more breed type & temperment that can play a bigger role then just if the dog is intact. Will most intact males be more territorial then one that is not? Most likey. But not always. But then my whole female is just as territorial, maybe even more so than my intact male.
I feel that the hormones bring 'something more' to the table if you are doing sport or PP with your dogs. But for the everyday pet, they should be spayed or neutered. Most of the reason for that is that the average owner has all they can do to even barely train their dog minimally, let alone control or contain an intact dog. Of course, there are exceptions to this, but they are very far & few between, considering the number of dogs in the world vs the ones that actually have any dependable training on them. Not intending to insult anyone here. It is just the facts. There are tons of dogs in my area ( about 20 walk by my house daily & at least that again (different dogs) around the fields that I take my dogs) & most can barely walk nicely on a leash, most are dragging their owners, let alone have any kind of reliable recall. It may be different in other areas, but I live in a nice neighborhood in CT, not the inner city or country, so I suspect that what I see is a good cross section of whats out there in most areas. JMO
MY DOGS...MY RULES
![an image](http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv283/zenithgirl/IMG_0281.jpg) |
Top
|
Re: Rethinking spaying and neutering
[Re: Anne Jones ]
#285602 - 07/18/2010 11:38 AM |
Webboard User
![](https://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/avatars/potted_flowers1.gif)
![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png) ![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png) ![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png)
Reg: 04-29-2004
Posts: 3825
Loc: Northeast
Offline |
|
Maybe Dennis will post about how neutering DIDN'T keep his male from mounting etc one of his in heat females & the end result of that little escapade.
Dennis?!!!
So neutering is not always the answer to your prayers either in terms of dog behaviors. Most dogs with personality & certain behavior issues are not 'cured' by neutering or spaying & in some cases these negative behavors can be created or even exasperated by spay/neutering. Sometimes the answer is not always so easy as she I or shouldn't I. But for the average pet, it is the answer most of the time.
MY DOGS...MY RULES
![an image](http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv283/zenithgirl/IMG_0281.jpg) |
Top
|
Re: Rethinking spaying and neutering
[Re: Anne Jones ]
#285603 - 07/18/2010 11:49 AM |
Webboard User
![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png) ![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png) ![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png)
Reg: 01-16-2010
Posts: 1389
Loc:
Offline |
|
Good post Anne. I think that is what it all comes down to, experienced trainer and owner vs. average dufus.
|
Top
|
Re: Rethinking spaying and neutering
[Re: Anne Jones ]
#285604 - 07/18/2010 12:01 PM |
Webboard User
![](https://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/avatars/potted_flowers1.gif)
![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png) ![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png) ![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png)
Reg: 04-29-2004
Posts: 3825
Loc: Northeast
Offline |
|
Sometimes the answer is not always so easy as she I or shouldn't I.
I meant: should I or shouldn't I.
MY DOGS...MY RULES
![an image](http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv283/zenithgirl/IMG_0281.jpg) |
Top
|
Re: Rethinking spaying and neutering
[Re: LucilleHollander ]
#285605 - 07/18/2010 12:10 PM |
Webboard User
![](https://leerburg.com/webboard/images/avatars/paw.png)
Reg: 06-20-2010
Posts: 34
Loc: Eternal Chaos
Offline |
|
Yes, I do think training can overcome behavior issues in most cases, but most people looking for a simple companion animal aren't going to be interested or able to put in the time, money and effort required. Too many people think of dogs as just another accessory to go along with their new living room set, and don't consider that even a sterilized animal will require constant training and attention. I guess the point I was trying to get at was that there are far too many good animals being surrendered and destroyed, abandoned and abused, because someone didn't care enough to sterilize the parent animals and the pups were surrendered or tossed on the side of a highway or what have you.
|
Top
|
Re: Rethinking spaying and neutering
[Re: Chris Knepper ]
#285606 - 07/18/2010 12:16 PM |
Webboard User
![](https://leerburg.com/webboard/images/avatars/paw.png)
Reg: 06-20-2010
Posts: 34
Loc: Eternal Chaos
Offline |
|
I disagree in part. I think being intact vs. being sterilized can greatly influence a dog's behavior and tendencies. I do, however, think that most behavior issues can be dealt with by appropriate training. However, the average dog-owner (not someone who does training or showing or working) doesn't have the ability (or more likely just doesn't want to bother with) doing the training that is necessary.
|
Top
|
Re: Rethinking spaying and neutering
[Re: steve strom ]
#285608 - 07/18/2010 12:24 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 07-15-2010
Posts: 105
Loc: Texas
Offline |
|
It is not always easy to know what the right answers are.
I know I'm not exactly thoughtful, but where the heck are the questions??
Steve,
You're golden, I wouldn't have you any other way. You definitely contribute a certain je ne sais quoi that adds to the board.
Dans les champs de l'observation le hasard ne favorise que l' esprits prepares. Louis Pasteur |
Top
|
Re: Rethinking spaying and neutering
[Re: LucilleHollander ]
#285609 - 07/18/2010 12:32 PM |
Moderator
![](https://leerburg.com/webboard/images/avatars/paw.png)
![User Rating: 4 stars](images/star.png) ![User Rating: 4 stars](images/star.png) ![User Rating: 4 stars](images/star.png) ![User Rating: 4 stars](images/star.png)
Reg: 07-13-2005
Posts: 31571
Loc: North-Central coast of California
Offline |
|
Steve .... You definitely contribute a certain je ne sais quoi ....
Well, je sais quoi, but it's a family board, so I won't say ......
|
Top
|
Re: Rethinking spaying and neutering
[Re: Jessica Foster ]
#285610 - 07/18/2010 12:37 PM |
Webboard User
![](https://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/avatars/potted_flowers1.gif)
![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png) ![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png) ![User Rating: 3 stars](images/star.png)
Reg: 04-29-2004
Posts: 3825
Loc: Northeast
Offline |
|
There was a newspaper ad posted recently for an 18mo old, not spayed, female GSD that the owners were trying to rehome(with a rehomeing fee, of course), located 2 towns away from me. When I inquired, out of curiousity...they had no papers on the dog, didn't know the lines, she didn't know what the parents history was etc, the woman & her husband were older, had bought the dog as a young pup from a BYB & had intended to breed her, but hadn't. I guess this was going to be their 'golden year' money maker. The dog now starting to mature didn't get along with their other toy dog & has too much energy for them to keep up with & was out of control. Did they expect a couch potato or a tiny dog that would get it's exercise running in the house when they took on a GSD?!!!
I begged the woman to take the dog to a vet that would spay for a reasomable cost before rehoming the dog or take it to a local no kill shelter that I told her about that would spay & rehome it for her. The dog had no training from what I could tell from her e-mail & the dog was giving them a hard time trying to walk her..so now she wasn't walked, which of course made things even worse. If the dog were a male I might have considered takeing it & rehoming it, but there is no way with my female that I would have another female in my home. The ad reappeard a coule of weeks later worded a bit differently, but was the same dog.(same e-mail address) They bought this BYB dog with the intentions of breeding her & they had no breeding knowledge & no ability to train this dog.
Just another example of the stupidity that is out there. God only knows what happened to this poor dog. Sad for this poor animal.
MY DOGS...MY RULES
![an image](http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv283/zenithgirl/IMG_0281.jpg) |
Top
|
When purchasing any product from Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. it is understood
that any and all products sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. are sold in Dunn
County Wisconsin, USA. Any and all legal action taken against Leerburg Enterprises,
Inc. concerning the purchase or use of these products must take place in Dunn
County, Wisconsin. If customers do not agree with this policy they should not
purchase Leerburg Ent. Inc. products.
Dog Training is never without risk of injury. Do not use any of the products
sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. without consulting a local professional.
The training methods shown in the Leerburg Ent. Inc. DVD’s are meant
to be used with a local instructor or trainer. Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. cannot
be held responsible for accidents or injuries to humans and/or animals.
Copyright 2010 Leerburg® Enterprises, Inc. All rights reserved. All photos and content on leerburg.com are part of a registered copyright owned by Leerburg Enterprise, Inc.
By accessing any information within Leerburg.com, you agree to abide by the
Leerburg.com Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.