Hi Simon:

It sounds like you’re really coming along with the boy. Great job!! A few thoughts came to mind on this.

I totally agree with Elaine, it sounds like he’s still be a bit nervous/confused during the sessions and you may need to back up a little, simply marking and high-value rewarding the relaxed behavior - sitting outside the crate, laying calmly beside your bed. Reinforce all the good stuff.

Turkey bacon smells pretty good. I would mark the behaviors as he does them and if he doesn’t take it right away, place it on the floor a couple of inches from his nose and walk away. He’ll get to it and the relaxed behavior is imprinted and marked. (For some dogs the process of taking food from a hand can be a bit scary at first).

 Quote: Simon Tai

 Quote: randy allen

Simon,
What does 'turn the dog on'?

1. When we're preparing his food. He'll hear the kibble rattle against the scoop and then his dog bowl. He'll come out into the kitchen alert and look at us . He's not jumping around in excitement or anything though.

This sounds perfect; you want him alert and looking at you to begin a session, he doesn’t need to be jumping with excitement - calm and relaxed sounds really good for this guy. Mealtime is a constant that he has learned to trust – it sparks his attention, feels good and he’s comfortable showing interest. This is “turning him on”.

I might try taking his bag of kibble, the scoop and his bowl and head to a place where he’s comfortable or eats. Sit on the floor with the empty bowl and wait for him to get over the “what the heck is this guy doing?” look, then scoop a few (10 or 20) kibbles into the bowl. When he eats them and is looking to you for more, mark and reward (scoop a few more into his dish). Don’t say or do anything else. Again, when he’s done and looks you, mark and scoop out the reward.

This could break it down a bit for him, getting him to understand the marking process - doing something he’s interested in while he’s relaxed as opposed to a “more formal” loading the mark session (if loading the mark could ever be considered formal). Maybe make his meals the process for the next couple of days.

This may get him paying attention to you for food rewards and he might even start looking forward to the mealtime sessions with you. Again, just a thought.

Elaine & CJ, thank you both for your input.

I think he might feel the pressure when we're doing a "formal" mark charging session, as easy as charging the mark is (just me clicking and him eating). His head will be cowered at times or he'll walk around indecisively.

Last night we had a quick 2 minute session with a mixed treat bag (hot dog/turkey bacon) where I went into it thinking I would just charge the marker, but he started sitting so then I started marking him when he sat. Then he started to lay down and I marked that too. Jackpotted his last down and called it a night. No commands given, just whatever he was offering me. Didn't go according to "plan" (just charging the mark), but I'll take what I can get I guess.

On the feeding treats front, he will eat out of my hand maybe 75% of the time, and if not I'll throw it where he sees it and he'll eat it 100% (high value of course) of the time.

Me being the eager new trainer, I bought 4 16 oz containers of the paw's gourmet treats (1 of each flavor) even before we got Louie. He wasn't interested in the 1st flavor we tried (liver mesquite) so we shelved them. We brought out another flavor yesterday (peanut butter and molasses) and he ate them. So another treat added to the list. Woo!

And CJ, I will try the mealtime kibble marking technique and report back. Thanks for that suggestion!

And Connie, I will get wifey to videotape some/all that we do.

Thanks all!

 Quote: CJ Barrett

I totally agree with Elaine, it sounds like he’s still be a bit nervous/confused during the sessions and you may need to back up a little, simply marking and high-value rewarding the relaxed behavior - sitting outside the crate, laying calmly beside your bed. Reinforce all the good stuff.

So when marking and rewarding him for relaxed behaviors in just daily life, that's reinforcing the good stuff and in the process charging the marker? Am I understanding this correctly?

I would still try to charge the marker all on it's own, not asking for any behavior just clicking and dropping a piece of food. Eventually he will get to the point that he hears the click and looks for a treat.

But yes marking and rewarding everyday relaxation is a good way to reinforce both the marker and his progress.

"So when marking and rewarding him for relaxed behaviors in just daily life, that's reinforcing the good stuff and in the process charging the marker? Am I understanding this correctly?"

Hi Simon,

Yes, this a form of it called free-shaping - the normal/natural dog behaviors that we want to reinforce, building confidence that their actions are pleasing to us.

"Loading the mark" is simply standing there and getting the dog to put a bit more thought into “how” to get the reward but can be difficult with low food drive, fearful dogs. The free shaping gets them “thinking” about the process and building some basic confidence/understanding of what makes US happy.

When they get more confident and want to play/engage us, they will start offering up the behaviors that have been rewarded in the past.

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Sounds like a plan. Thanks!

Hey Simon......
This might get his belly excited over food!
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs266.snc4/39663_10150247025460437_92788370436_14031388_4733221_n.jpg

I just came home from work and walked Louie and he was in an engaging mood, so I started marking (with a clicker) and rewarding while sitting on the couch. He was coming to me and looking at me so I was rewarding him for focus.

I've been using the clicker, but I'm finding it difficult to carry around a clicker with me all the time when it's not a "formal" training session. So I may move to the "yes" voice command.

And I am going to try marking while serving him dinner later.

I've casually marked/rewarded Louie for a minute or 2 at a time for focus since he's been super engaged today. Or is loving the hot dog/turkey bacon mix. Whatever, I'm NOT complaining! He is doing FABULOUSLY... it's gotten really consistent so I added in a "watch" verbal cue and he's getting it. I am amazed at this break through of sorts.

Update: Now he won't stop staring at me.

 Quote: Simon Tai

I am amazed at this break through of sorts.

Update: Now he won't stop staring at me.

YAY! That is great! Congratulations!

Something that jumped out at me but without seeing it; is hard to say. When Louie walks around indecisively and with his head down are you leaning toward him? The polite dog response would be to avert his head and give you space.