I would like to go back to the original question and put in my two cents on this topic for whatever it's worth...

First of all, you say that from the dogs paperwork that they were well-bred, top of the line pitbulls. I find this a bit hard to believe for if this was the case and they did come from such great lines, they wouldn't have shown up in a pet store. Enough said on that.

Secondly, it doesn't sound as though you have very much knowledge or experience with dogs, otherwise you wouldn't have taken in 2 puppies, of the same sex no less, especially not knowing anything about the breed. This is irresponsible regardless of the specific breed type whether it be pit bulls or cute little Yorkies! Plus, given the fact that you also have another dog in the home, you now have a pack, which means you've got a lot more on your hands than just training. Even a very experienced dog handler/trainer is not immune to pack aggression because it can happen at any time regardless of any type of situation. My husband and I have 5 dogs, 4 GSD's and 1 retired greyhound, none of which were acquired simultaneously. Each dog has a "pecking order" within their pack and there is also of course a pack leader. But it isn't always decided by "seniority". That is where the problems arise, in jockeying for position and the ensuing fights. My dogs have always cohabitated rather peacefully in our home, and most of the aggression that did arise was between the two males, one neutered, one intact. So naturally we kept a closer eye on them to keep the aggression in check. What we didn't see was the tension building between 2 of our females, our sweet docile greyhound (spayed) and one of the other GSD's (intact). That is, we didn't see it until one day about a year ago, during a routine play session in the yard, out of the blue the two engaged in a major dog fight. $2000.00 in vet bills, hundreds of stitches, and minus two toes later, the greyhound is still alive, and one notch lower in her pack position. But it hasn't diminished the aggression between the two. If anything, it's made it worse, because now she is PISSED OFF! The moral to this story is that it can happen anytime, anywhere, with any breed of dog and you need to be prepared and know what you're getting yourself into. The most important thing is to make sure the dogs understand that their "people" are A-1 Top Alpha...no questions asked!!

Thank you for everyone's input. I realize that this type of breed is unpredictable as of any Rot, Dobe, or any other dog for that matter. I just wanted to hear other people's opinion. I guess I got it.

Brendan:
As for your forum message. That sounds to me like maybe your part pit!lol As far as the penis extension part. If I had one of those maybe it would be worth trying to train 2 pits and succeed. You know, it would be that genetic thing.Are you always this way?

Bmatis:

Brandon is one of the originals on this board. He is most remembered for his recommendation of taking the dog to a secluded spot and as he feeds shoot him in the head.

The funny part is if you get past his shock value his advise is usually good.

BMatis,

First, Yes Brendan is always like that. Actually that was fairly restrained for him.

Keeping same sex dogs together is usually a problem. I have had better luck with bitches than males, in all cases you need to plan to severly limith the time they are together loose. If you are going to keep them both there are a couple of things you need to to. First, growling and snapping are never allowed for any reason. Limit the time they are together and get crates and keep them side by side so the dogs are together but seperated. This goes for the Pom also. I too would recomend that you find another home for one of them. It will be easier now while they are young to find homes.

For everybody else,

It is possible to find good animals in a pet shop, they are just few and far between. In an independant operation they will often deal with very good breeders for cats and dogs. In the shop I had all the puppies and about half the cats were from champion stock. The breeders were friends of ours or animals we bred our selves. I will grant that this isn't the norm, but it can and is done.

Hey Vince P, thanks. I'll remember that the next time. Sorry, Brendan.

I just want to clear up something in my message as far as the pet store goes. This pet store has different types of breeders that supply them with their dogs. When you are looking for a specific type of animal they contact the breeder for the breed that you are looking for and either they have puppies or they let you know when or if they are going to breed again. This isn't a pet store like in a mall.

Even so, bmatis, if you can't see the pups' parents or at least their dam, or if you don't know the breeder and whether or not they have a good reputation, then you are just taking someone's word and basically have no real idea of what you are getting. I'd just warn you to consider going straight to a reputable breeder next time. Otherwise, save yourself some money and adopt a mutt from the animal shelter (no offense to mutts! Mutts can make the best dogs!).

As an added note, a truly good breeder would not let their puppies go to just anyone. They would screen the potential new owner as much as the new owner should be screening them. And they would match a puppy with the owner based on temperament test, and not allow an owner to pick their favorite puppy based on color or cuteness. Also, I know of no good breeder that would let 2 puppies of the same sex go to the same owner.

I have been keeping APBT's for nearly 20 years, so I can give pretty informed opinion of the breed.
As others have said, i was probably not a good idea to try and raise 2 together. Either build a kennel, or get used to rotating them in and out of a crate, so they will not develop an appetite for fighting. You might also consider a chain setup, ths is how they have been kept for many years.
Regarding the APBT's suitability for dog sports, I just recieved the Oct issue of "Dog Sports Magizine" and in it I see that the breed did very well vs all others in the Acton Tough Dawg Open. In fact, an APBT won the decoys choice award. Also, one event was dominated by Pitbulls. (#1-3 finishers). I also see that they are doing very well in K9 Pro Sports. Yes I know, Schutzhund is the be all and end all of all dog sports to many here, but maybe you can see my point. Plus, the top trainers and handlers generally work with the more conventional breeds. Perhaps as time goes on they will try the APBT, and see how well they can do. Oh BTW, I believe that the NARA allows APBT to compete, but not Mexico or France...don't know why..
As far as breeders go, years ago, and even today to some degree, the best specimans of these dogs were not available to just anyone. To sell a dog at all was to be branded as a "Peddler". Even now, you can only get a dog from many of the top guys if you know them.
As usual Brendan is trolling... Another silly comment. Perhaps if he were a better trainer, the dog that he shot would have worked out. It was probably his skills that were lacking, not the potential of the dog.
There is no APBT in him at all.
Just for the record, I hope my comment re Schutzhund is not taken the wrong way...I have tremendous respect for those that put all of the effort required to train these dogs, or dogs for any of the disciplines.

Regards-
Ted

Brendan you know what? You sound just like the two ladies that where scared shitless of my 5 month old GSD in the pet store the other day. Are you really that narrow minded and clueless to believe all the hype so called "aggressive" dogs get through the media channels etc? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I hope others dont get the wrong idea about Australians! I guess there is always going to be a pin dick in the crowd.

Anyway getting back to the original post I think its asking for trouble trying to raise and train these pups together, it sounds like you have a mini farm on your hands already and now you have introduced a couple of rambunctious pups into the mix.

Any which way you look at it buying a pup from a puppy mill as you did is a diservice to all pups and dogs. I thought this had been stamped out I guess not please dont continue to support puppy mills <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Hayden

I think it is such stupdity and ignorance. Like some fool saying " GSDs are killer dogs bred fo attacking people" We all know that it's a crock of BS. Just like Brendan's and other's attack on Pit Bulls. Dogs like most things in life show the exact result of their upringing and raising/training or lack thereof. You get what you give sometimes two fold.
Pit bulls just like mals/ds/gsds/rotts etc. should ideally be owned by an experienced dog owner or a new owner that is open and dedicated to ideas of raising and training such dogs.Yes Pit Bulls are VERY strong and when raised and bred properly they also have a good fight drive when needed.These like most dogs require an oulet for their natural drives and talents, otherwise there will be problems that arise.
I think that the peron that has a problem wih these dogs should build a foundation with each individual dog and train it for obedience and also have an "out" comand. I think if you want these two dogs to live together you should have each one muzzled initially until they know how to act and get used to each other. When they get ready to get into a scrap gvie them the out command. The muzzles and leashes are your equalizers. Ideally you could have someone that lives with you help control the dogs. Don't slip with the muzzles and get complacent. Expose them slowly to siuations where they want to brawl and reinforce the "out" command very strongly with a physical and simultaneously verbal correction so they get the message and respond to your vebal command alone.
It is also a myth that you can't raise more than one pup at the same time and have it trained properly. I have 4 dogs(and more that were placed/sold in good homes) that live together all intact males, a father and three sons all Malinois and Mainois/Dutch Shepherd from KNPV and NVBK lines. All are very well trained, All an go to strange places and work by themselves, All can play together with a little scrap here and there, all can stay in the same room together for hours alone and there is no problem.
Why because I worked them individually and two at a time sometimes all at a time in the fields when they were younger. It has been like this for two years now. All can bark , bite, out and do awesome aglity and fisbee.I routinely play a fetch/agility/obedience game with two at a time which is very intense with two high drive, possessive shepherds!!!!!! Which can be around people an children and other dogs that behave.
Learn for yourself and don't listen to the hypocritacal , ignorant, generalists that don't have expeience firsthand or are bitter about a firsthand failure because they couldn't train two or more dogs at the same time. Look at Border Collies as an example where these dogs are raised and worked together on a far routinely.
George
Working Shepherds