Quote: Daniel Gregory

My final question is, when is best to start adding the actual commands to the marker, and in what order should the marker and command be given?

Daniel

The progression should be:
1)Lure, mark desired behavior, reward
Once pup has done multiple repetitions and is performing the behavior the way you want it, then:

2)Say command, pause a second, lure, mark desired behavior, reward
It's important to separate the verbal command from the luring...speaking from experience here of doing it wrong. (simultaneously , which slows down the learning process and probaly confuses the dog)

3)After multiple reps, you will phase out the lure, and just use the command

Just me, but I would not lure the pup and mark without rewarding. You want that pup to associate the mark with a yummy reward every time, at this point. Stick a treat in your pocket...

Hi again everyone,

I have another question regarding a 'stop biting' technique and i wanted to run it by you to see your thoughts. I have tried it and it has the desired effect, but im worried it sends the wrong signals, or i may be reading into it to much.

So when Mac bites i say let go, when he does let go, i mark it with a (YES) and give him a treat. This seems to work the best and does not involve my hands being shredded.... which they truly are now. (After letting him bite it out until bored... Mac takes a LOOONG time to get bored!

So is this a worth while method? I thought it may be better to tell him to let go, which he does and then wait until he grabs his toy, mark that with (YES) and then treat him? Again im unsure about the long term effects and understanding by Mac.

Any thoughts?

Daniel

I don't know what the correct answer to this would be but it seems that you could make Mac stop biting you with either food or toy, which is great! It took me a long time to figure it out with Haydn

Since he is so easy to redirect it seems that he is not all that into biting you but it's more about the interaction with you. I'd be carrying treats and toys with me all the time and watch for the signs of him getting ready to pounce and ask him for something else to do, such as SIT or toss a toy for him. Hopefully, this will give Mac an alternative way to engage you.

I taught my pup the command "hit" to bite on a rag held taught between my hands at a very young age. Sit, wait, "hit" -- tug of war
for a minute, sit, give(release grip on rag) food reward. Repeat. We did this a lot.
I am not a trainer AT ALL but this series of commands with allowed biting seemed to be a good one for my guy.

To me, it seems a little too close to rewarding him for biting your hands. I know you said mark and treat for letting go, but the first part is still him biting your hands.

When you ignore it, the idea is to not give him any satisfaction and the only way he can have any is with the appropriate toy or rag, whatever it is your using. Be a little more preemptive with a toy. Make that the first thing he contacts, never mind trying to pet or hold him first. Pet him when he settles down,and keep it brief and calm at first.

Thanks again everyone, brilliant advice. I think ill try the redriection approach some more with mini exercises such as sitting and lying down.

 Quote: daniel gregory

Firstly is it acceptable to essentially pretend to have a treat in order to make Mac sit before entering the house?

Yes. It is called a hand signal. Ie, the "sit" hand signal I use is a raised, closed hand. It starts that way because I have a cookie in there, and use it as a lure/pressure to acheive the "sit" in the first place. It stays that way because that is what the dog has gotten conditioned to.

Also, "reinforcers" don't always have to be a treat. Opening the door and allowing the pup to go through it can be reinforcement a' plenty. Especially for a BC! They learn how to make things "work" very readily. "Wow...when I sit, the door magically opens! That's pretty cool."

 Quote:

My final question is, when is best to start adding the actual commands to the marker, and in what order should the marker and command be given?

You instill and use a cue when you are 90% sure the dog understands/will perform the behavior. The order is:
cue (command)
behavior
yes! (marker)
reinforcer (treat, door-opening, etc...)

Until the dog understands the lure/hand signal 9 times out of ten, don't call it anything. Want a fun exercise? Do a training session with your puppy using no words at all (except for maybe "yes!", if that is the marker you are using.

Your puppy is darling!!

Tracy

 Quote: daniel gregory

So when Mac bites i say let go, when he does let go, i mark it with a (YES) and give him a treat.

What exercises have you done with him so that he understands what "let go" means?

The scenario you described has great potential to become a behavior chain...a game.

You mentioned that you've just let him chew away on your hands until bored. That's not really optimal either, because chewing your hands is very reinforcing to a puppy.

He's a little dude, so you should quietly and with no emotion grab him by the scruff, and position him away from you in such a manner that he can't really get his teeth on you (much) until he gives up. Then you can slowly let go, and calmly give him pats, or stroke his fur, or chin scritches, etc.... Nothing to get him amped up...just calm attention. (this is advice for a baby, not an adult dog with these issues....that'a whole other can o' worms)

After he is calm and not seeking to chew on you...THEN you give him some alternative item to chomp on.

For this sort of behavior, I personally don't use reward markers and treats and that stuff. Not chewing on humans (for companions, pets, your average house dogs) is simply "the way things are".

Train the cues > behaviors of "out" or "off" or "let go", and all that other stuff in planned training sessions.

He sounds like a character! Enjoy him!
Tracy