Re: Liver disease? Infection?
[Re: Jennifer Lee ]
#304240 - 11/23/2010 04:26 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 11-30-2009
Posts: 3724
Loc: minnesota
Offline |
|
Well, I hope you get a good answer.
I better quit making internet diagnoses --- I've been out of the business for 15 years!
AND- I'm better at COWS.
Take heart in knowing that most things, almost all, get better with time, especially in younger dogs.
|
Top
|
Re: Liver disease? Infection?
[Re: Betty Landercasp ]
#304244 - 11/23/2010 04:36 PM |
Moderator
Reg: 07-13-2005
Posts: 31571
Loc: North-Central coast of California
Offline |
|
Well, I hope you get a good answer.
I better quit making internet diagnoses --- I've been out of the business for 15 years!
No, Betty ....
I know I speak only for myself, but I always want to see the take of a vet, long-retired or no. All I know (except for nutrition and allergies) is what I research and parrot back. Someone with actual experience always has a better understanding/overview.
And you don't diagnose. You mention your experiences. That's what it's all about.
|
Top
|
Re: Liver disease? Infection?
[Re: Jennifer Mullen ]
#304246 - 11/23/2010 04:40 PM |
Moderator
Reg: 07-13-2005
Posts: 31571
Loc: North-Central coast of California
Offline |
|
They tested for pancreatitis with blood AND cPLI, which as far as I know is pretty definitive.
So no pancreatitis.
Sigh, that it would be so simple. That's twice now I've been disappointed it wasn't that!
So I guess that leaves Neb with liver disease or toxic ingestion.
A liver shunt doesn't make sense in that he doesn't fit the profile - he's not runty or underweight, for instance - liver disease makes me nervous. He's still so young.
How is he now? I mean, overall, besides temp returning to normal?
|
Top
|
Re: Liver disease? Infection?
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#304249 - 11/23/2010 04:53 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 08-16-2007
Posts: 2365
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Offline |
|
What Connie said. My vet is my vet, but it's really helpful to go in there with some ideas and questions and this whole thing has been stumping me research-wise (from the non-pancreatitis perspective).
Natalya, for the life of me I don't get how they're INGESTING the copper. I guess there is trace amounts in food or something.
Connie, he's good now. I would say yesterday he pretty well returned to 'normal' Neb - from Friday onwards he's been improving each day - the biggest shifts were while he was still on IV in the hospital - Sunday he was a bit quiet/off once we got him home but I suspect that was more to do with the ordeal of being in the hospital than anything.
EDIT: Toby just noted Neb still doesn't want to wrestle with Luc, though Neb is relatively playful otherwise.
(Though, the ICU at the 24-hr hospital was NICE!!!! Neb has a huge crate but his room (so to speak, he wasn't in a cage) was bigger. Both Toby and I could sit inside with him comfortably)
We're still being gentle with everything though. I'm completely nervous he will break, and I'm very nervous the longer he's away from the hospital and off the IV the greater the chance of his symptoms returning.
I spent the weekend trying to play catch up mentally to him actually being sick and in the hospital, so now I'm trying to figure out what on earth actually was/is going on. This is all very helpful for when we go into our regular vet for follow-up tests Friday - the copper thing, for instance. And at least now I know the proper tests were done for the pancreatitis. I haven't even known what to be asking, I'm just figuring that out.
Teagan!
|
Top
|
Re: Liver disease? Infection?
[Re: Jennifer Mullen ]
#304252 - 11/23/2010 05:11 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 12-22-2006
Posts: 1824
Loc: Cambridge, MA
Offline |
|
We're still being gentle with everything though. I'm completely nervous he will break, and I'm very nervous the longer he's away from the hospital and off the IV the greater the chance of his symptoms returning.
Welcome to my world...
Re the copper stuff - I think it's an ingredient in a lot of dog foods, but only dogs that have sensitivity to it will have problems. The condition also appears to be prevalent in a number of terrier breeds...
~Natalya
|
Top
|
Re: Liver disease? Infection?
[Re: Natalya Zahn ]
#304308 - 11/23/2010 09:49 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 08-16-2007
Posts: 2365
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Offline |
|
How is Oscar doing?
Found this from Merck (9th Edition, so old....2005):
Hypoglycemia can be seen with hepatic disease because the liver is essential for glucose metabolism. Hypoglycemia is also reported with portosystemic shunts, as a paraneoplastic syndrome in animals with hepatic neoplasia, and in animals iwth liver disease associated with sepsis.
Throws his hypoglycemia dx in 2009 into an interesting light. I made sure the doctors at the 24-hr clinic knew he was dx'd....this didn't come up at all. Maybe I'm pulling a passage out of context - still, this is going to have to be discussed on Friday.
Teagan!
|
Top
|
Re: Liver disease? Infection?
[Re: Jennifer Mullen ]
#322244 - 03/16/2011 04:44 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 08-16-2007
Posts: 2365
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Offline |
|
Well, got his latest bile acid test results back - not sure what they were at the emerg vets, but since we've been at ours he tested 11 and then 9, both elevated, but heading in the right direction.
He just tested 15
He also had lipids (lipase?) in his blood.
But he seems fine at home! Walking, running, hiking (I haven't taken him backpacking; we made the decision no wilderness trips for him until we have consistently normal blood values) no problems.
We're supposed to change his diet to lower fat/lower protein - HELP! Ack! What to feed? Cook some rice with chicken and veg? Buy a food?
We take him in a month or so for a full liver panel, and we'll fast him for 24hrs then instead of 12hrs.
The vet is wondering if he doesn't have some sort of chronic pancreas issue that is currently subclinical - but I'm confused b/c I thought he had all the thorough pancreatitis tests.
Teagan!
|
Top
|
Re: Liver disease? Infection?
[Re: Jennifer Mullen ]
#322245 - 03/16/2011 04:45 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 08-16-2007
Posts: 2365
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Offline |
|
Oh, and the vet is going to consult a nutritionist about foods for me.
Teagan!
|
Top
|
Re: Liver disease? Infection?
[Re: Jennifer Mullen ]
#322267 - 03/16/2011 05:50 PM |
Moderator
Reg: 07-13-2005
Posts: 31571
Loc: North-Central coast of California
Offline |
|
"Based on studies done by Dr. Center at Cornell University, dogs with bile acid concentrations < 25 umol/L do not have evidence of hepatic pathology on biopsy, whereas dogs with values > 25 umol/L usually have hepatic pathology. Dogs with bile acid values between 15-25 umol/L are in an equivocal zone (i.e. may or may not have hepatic pathology)."
from http://ahdc.vet.cornell.edu/clinpath/modules/chem/bileacid.htm
What was the lipase number and what are the normal values for that lab (on the paperwork)?
|
Top
|
Re: Liver disease? Infection?
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#322269 - 03/16/2011 06:00 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 08-16-2007
Posts: 2365
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Offline |
|
Not sure on the lipase number - they said it was a like a scale and he was elevated but not necessarily high. ?
Bile acid normals for that lab are under 6, and he was 15. So that doesn't seem good.
Teagan!
|
Top
|
When purchasing any product from Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. it is understood
that any and all products sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. are sold in Dunn
County Wisconsin, USA. Any and all legal action taken against Leerburg Enterprises,
Inc. concerning the purchase or use of these products must take place in Dunn
County, Wisconsin. If customers do not agree with this policy they should not
purchase Leerburg Ent. Inc. products.
Dog Training is never without risk of injury. Do not use any of the products
sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. without consulting a local professional.
The training methods shown in the Leerburg Ent. Inc. DVD’s are meant
to be used with a local instructor or trainer. Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. cannot
be held responsible for accidents or injuries to humans and/or animals.
Copyright 2010 Leerburg® Enterprises, Inc. All rights reserved. All photos and content on leerburg.com are part of a registered copyright owned by Leerburg Enterprise, Inc.
By accessing any information within Leerburg.com, you agree to abide by the
Leerburg.com Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.