Quote: Betty Landercasp

Makes me feel like a complete flop as an owner-not to mention as a former veterinarian.

Betty, I’ll bet the most experienced of owners have these kinds of days. I know we sure have.

Since we’re sharing - we hadn’t realized how obsessed Echo had become with a deer hide we threw in the yard last year. Bob was just walking by it and the lunging growl is something I never want to see again.

An immediate four hour strenuous hike with heel and down commands pretty much the entire way, along with crate time for the next two days and he’s been a pussy cat since. But we know it’s there, it’s in all of them. And like Mara said, it’s their way of communication, good, bad or otherwise. We just need to learn how to talk back, fairly.

And as far as being a former veterinarian, well it’s my understanding that you’re taught to figure out what’s wrong and prescribe a treatment plan. As far as the procedures go for administering the medication, I’m pretty sure Connie’s the only one that could write a book on that.

The first two applications of Echo’s eye ointment were pure man handling. I don’t think I could have done it without Bob. Thank god Connie came along with step by step instructions on her marker method. I’ll bet she could come up with something for you too.

You’re being far too hard on yourself.

Well, you guys are all great. Got dog from garage(it's heated) where he has been all evening because I was still pissed off. I'm having a glass of wine andwe will start again tomorrow.

Lord help me if I gave up on the dog's I lost my patience/temper with. Those two are hard earned virtues with me and I'm not always successful.
Obviously calm control is the ideal situation.
I have yet to own any dog that hasn't brought impatience and anger out in me. Definitely not a good trait for a trainer but I just have to tell myself the dog isn't doing it because of contempt or trying to get under my skin, or being stubborn. Those are all human behaviors.
You can't stay mad at the dogs because they wont understand 5 mins after it's over what your upset about.
UUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!

Ringworm dope applied.
Porkchop reward delivered.
Some squirreling, no backtalk.
A better start to the day!

Yep, a much better way to start the day. Was there anything you did differently that you are aware of?

I stuffed an inch piece of pork chop in his mouth before
applying the cream. If he went to bite my hand, he'd have dropped the pork chop.

I know it's weak. He was freaked despite the bribe-hair flying everywhere as I set him down.
It's a bad scenario , I have to look almost into his eyes to see
what I'm doing, have to poke right at his face.

I'm going to order some ketoconazole oral medication for him. Hated to do that as it is toxic as hell and the clotrimazole topical works if you keep it up.

Here's a funny related story: A year ago my sale calves caught this ringworm -from some ancient grooming tools.Can't take them to the fancy state sale with ringworm. So I'm going to Walgreens once a week buying the vaginal yeast infection clotrimazole which is a 3% concentration instead of the athelete's foot dope which is 1%. I'm buying 4 or 5 tubes of the stuff at a time. You should have seen the looks on the faces of the clerks! They didn't even want to touch my credit card! I had to alternate Walgreens...
"It's for the CALVES -- yea, right, lady!"

Funny story and way to go on the better start!

And if I may, I don’t know much about ringworm. I’ve seen it and know it’s contagious but never had to deal with it in my pack. You said you’ve been treating it since around Christmas time. Sounds like it has quite a lengthy treatment process.

How much longer or what’s the general length of time one has to apply the medication? If they were to do it just topically?


Edited by CJ Barrett (01/23/2011 09:57 AM)
Edit reason: add topically

 Quote: betty landercasp

I stuffed an inch piece of pork chop in his mouth before
applying the cream. If he went to bite my hand, he'd have dropped the pork chop.

I know it's weak. He was freaked despite the bribe-hair flying everywhere as I set him down.
It's a bad scenario , I have to look almost into his eyes to see
what I'm doing, have to poke right at his face.

I'm going to order some ketoconazole oral medication for him. Hated to do that as it is toxic as hell and the clotrimazole topical works if you keep it up.

Here's a funny related story: A year ago my sale calves caught this ringworm -from some ancient grooming tools.Can't take them to the fancy state sale with ringworm. So I'm going to Walgreens once a week buying the vaginal yeast infection clotrimazole which is a 3% concentration instead of the athelete's foot dope which is 1%. I'm buying 4 or 5 tubes of the stuff at a time. You should have seen the looks on the faces of the clerks! They didn't even want to touch my credit card! I had to alternate Walgreens...
"It's for the CALVES -- yea, right, lady!"

That's hysterical. When I used to buy meclizine by the 100ct bottle so frequently for my springer that had labrythitis they never believed the "it's for my dog" story, either.

Betty,
So you've elected to let the dog win this little war have you? Deciding that a less desirable (and by your own words, highly toxic) medication is better than dealing with the issues at hand.
Well what are you going to do if you've got to handle a procedure far more invasive then a dab of ointment? Say a problem of the ears?
Big deal, the dog growled and snapped. So what? If he'd wanted to bite you, he would have, dogs that want to bite don't miss. While it's no fun getting bit, I have to agree with Al, no matter the lesson you think you taught the dog....the dog won. Has won. You're not going to screw with him anymore.
If you're worried about getting bit why not a soft muzzle like this: http://www.petcarerx.com/pcrx/ProductPages/Product.aspx?pid=15767&parameter=NexTag
Seems a better solution then a toxic medication. In fact I'm surprised as an ex-vet or tech you aren't intimately familiar them.

As to your pointed remarks about the dogs temperament. The reasons many of us go with known lineage's is that it gives us an idea of what the dog might become. Not what it will become. Only what can maybe expected, and what is expected is no guarantee. We deal with the dog that's in front of us, however the dog's temperament turns out, because they're each and every one different.
It's our job to direct and nuture whatever that temperament turns out to be toward our own liking within our life. If we're not willing to live with an attribute in a dogs temperament then it behoves us to place the dog someplace it can flourish, not shit on it and make everyone's life miserable.

I urge you to sit back and decide how you and this dog are going the live together. You're either going to live in harmony or are you two are going to be constantly at odds?

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

 Quote: betty landercasp

... I'm going to order some ketoconazole oral medication for him. Hated to do that as it is toxic as hell and the clotrimazole topical works if you keep it up.

I would think twice and three times before doing this. I agree with Randy that this is not how you really want to deal with this.

Yes, to the little vet-type muzzle for now, but also, along with or after this protocol, I would map out a marker-training "procedures" training plan.

A week isn't really what I'd plan on for teaching a behavior that is very difficult for many dogs and that making it confrontation-free will give you and the dog a better life ... for his whole life. I don't mean to be dramatic, but I have never regretted this work. When I had to do eyeball procedures on a lacerated eyeball that became infected, meaning I made a big chart of drops, ointments, etc., to mark off something almost every hour of the day (for weeks!) to save the eye, I don't know how I'd have done it without the in-place procedures work.

Many dogs freak out with ear, eye, and mouth (any part of the face and head) procedures.

You will pat yourself on the back forever for desensitizing the dog to such procedures. I (and I am sure others) would be MORE THAN happy to type out the exact steps I take for this.

It's probably hard to shift from a vet's POV (many animals, many procedures) to an owner's POV (one animal for his lifetime, many procedures) and to realize how much you can change this situation .... forever.