Quote: Anne Jones

Makes me sick. I feel really bad becasue these poor owners are really trying to get some help with their dogs & this is what they get for their efforts. Sad.

Which makes this board's attitude towards newcomers/dumbasses even more sad and perplexing.

Aaron is that you or your stepson in the pics? Danke is gorgeous.

"Which makes this board's attitude towards newcomers/dumbasses even more sad and perplexing."


Which this board (of individuals) tries to avoid (I assume you mean anger at posts explaining why the O.P. is using abusive "training").

Yes, it's hard as hell to keep chanting "help the dog, help the dog, forgive and don't rage at this abusive know-it-all human who is advice-shopping and posing, and HELP THE DOG."

Over and over and over .... it IS hard. But IMHO the people here try, over and over and over. JMO!


And before anyone, including Ross, decides I mean them, I don't. I'm talking about the people in the past who fit that description to a "T" and when the advice didn't support what they believed and wanted to hear, stomped off with "I was right about you people!"

 Quote: connie sutherland

"Which makes this board's attitude towards newcomers/dumbasses even more sad and perplexing."

Which this board (of individuals) tries to avoid (I assume you mean anger at posts explaining why the O.P. is using abusive "training").

Yes, it's hard as hell to keep chanting "help the dog, help the dog, forgive and don't rage at this abusive know-it-all human who is advice-shopping and posing, and HELP THE DOG."

Over and over and over .... it IS hard. But IMHO the people here try, over and over and over. JMO!

And before anyone, including Ross, decides I mean them, I don't. I'm talking about the people in the past who fit that description to a "T" and when the advice didn't support what they believed and wanted to hear, stomped off with "I was right about you people!"

Eh, even if you did mean me, it's fine. You can't please everyone (and I certainly never have).

The pre-conceived notions go both ways. Just as the dumbasses can stomp off and say "I was right about them, don't need to listen to a bunch of meanies", LBers can stomp and say "I knew I was right about that newcomer."

I've been on many other boards, including in an administrative capacity, and the surest sign of a forum in a death spiral is when newcomers no longer feel welcome, period. New blood is eventually choked off and the forum dies. This place is well on its way (and is being helped along by the head honcho every time he threatens someone or tells them to shut their mouth).

Now, where's my pork sandwich?

The pre-conceived notions go both ways. Just as the dumbasses can stomp off and say "I was right about them, don't need to listen to a bunch of meanies", LBers can stomp and say "I knew I was right about that newcomer."



Believe it or not, I comprehend that.

But thanks for the additional drag-down.

Sorry. I'm a bit salty today. Must be all the pork.



I'm still dying to know if the guy who looks like a high-school cross-country runner is really Aaron!

 Quote: Ross Rapoport

I've been on many other boards, including in an administrative capacity, and the surest sign of a forum in a death spiral is when newcomers no longer feel welcome, period. New blood is eventually choked off and the forum dies. This place is well on its way (and is being helped along by the head honcho every time he threatens someone or tells them to shut their mouth).

Maybe I missed something, but I didn't see Ed actually threaten anyone...not that I agree with his posts necessarily.

Ross, first off, let me say that I like you and I don't think that you are a dumbass. I just went through some of your posts and found not one example of people being snarky.

I know that you have recently been in a pissing contest with two other members here, and like in this situation, things got misconstrued and taken out of proportion. It's very difficult on a forum to gauge the intent of a post sometimes, and I think you have to give posters the benefit of the doubt, and you, in turn should be given the benefit of the doubt regarding intent.

I don't think this forum is in a downward spiral. Many experienced members here freely give valuable advice to people who sometimes are desperate to find answers. What is expected in return is that those people looking for advice actually give it some thought before rejecting it...

The rejection of the advice is a defense mechanism. People fear few things as much as they fear a public, nasty correction. Especially when it concerns a pet--their pet. Once they feel ganged up on, they shut down, or sink into defense.

I've got the bite marks to prove it. Figuratively, and literally.

And yes, very hard to gauge intent. Everyone's a nice guy/gal in the real world.

It takes two to tango. Anne and I butted heads many times, and initially I am sure we'd affixed labels to each other that I can't repeat here. But one of us saw something in the other and a PM--albeit indignant--was exchanged (not sure who went first). Fast forward a few months and I am politely asking Anne questions of every stripe, down to which ply toilet paper I should use (kidding!).

There's hope, but the culture needs to encourage the kind of conciliatory behind-the-scenes chat that I just described. I think PMs always get the job done better--they make the dumbasses feel welcome, and like the advice is personalized. Then at some point they're not so dumb anymore, and they will stick up for the people who helped them. Win-Win.

Mostly I read information here because I'm a lifelong dog lover, just a couple of obervations on the topic which has nothing to do with "canine logic" but is a worthwhile discussion nonetheless.

-Ed Frawley had no intent to offend anyone. Anybody who thought his comments were intentionally offensive was being way oversensitive, and took his posts wrongly. It happens. Aaron, if you read this - I hope you just take a breather for awhile and get back here where you contribute so very much.

-THICK SKIN IS REQUIRED to participate in any long term internet forum, IMO. Occasional breaks are healthy.

Leerburg forums = superb dog knowledge

Leerburg forums = lots of condescension, preaching and insults from the humans. If a person can tolerate that with a thick enough skin,

Leerburg forums = superb dog knowledge

It's true that it's "all about the dogs." Unfortunately, the dogs can't read or type. If you lose the human, you lose the ability to help the dog.

 Quote: kelly byrd

Random dude at PetsMart today: "Where did you get him trained?"

Me: "I trained him myself"

Random dude: "Oh, he must be old then, he's so calm"

Me: "Actually, he just turned 2 years old last month "

Random dude: "Oh..... ok...." (and walks away shaking his head)

I think he thought I was lying.

This conversation going on while a PetsMart "dog trainer" was trying to get a dog to sit, by tossing on a prong collar, yanking up, as he pushed on the butt of the dog yelling SIT. Promised the owner the dog wouldn't pull in the impossibly oversized prong. Idiot.

Off Topic ? Or Regarding "Canine" & "Logic"

I had Often Wondered How Old This Dog Was, & for How Long He had Been Jumping or, from prior pictures, been Acrobatic With Frisbee's?
& also has this dog had hip, elbow, xrays?

There are multiple articles, advice, in the archive of this website, from the web masters, regarding the above as it pertains to health, injury, & effect, as I have a 90# GSD & learn from others experience.

Ed Frawley's experience is 45 years of training German Shepherds.

 Quote: Ross Rapoport

I'm still dying to know if the guy who looks like a high-school cross-country runner is really Aaron!

That'd be Aaron.