Dogs learn all kinds of things that we don't teach them, but it's because of the correlation between their behavior and the direct consequences of their behavior. They don't think back and associate a scolding with something they did earlier in the day. Punishment must be timely to be effective; otherwise, you are just teaching hiim that he should never stand with a shoe held in front of his face. That's all he thinks he's being punished for - the behavior at that moment.

So your saying the dog does or dosen't remember taking the shoes out? My question was not answered before. Cause if the dog can remember that he took the shoes then why can't he be taught not to take the shoes? And if the only time he takes the shoes out is when your not around THEN WHAT? The dog is incapable of learning that you are not correcting him for coming over to you, your letting him know that HE IS NOT TO TOUCH YOUR SHOES!? I swear some of us must think that dogs are complete idiots.

ROFLMAO Sch3FH2
otherwise, you are just teaching him that he should never stand with a shoe held in front of his face. God is that funny!

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I was under the impression when the dog stops the unwanted behaviour you are suppost to reward the new correct behaviour with praise...are you saying this is not so? I understand your point here, and I agree with it, but how do you get the dog to understand the redirected behaviour is what you want if not through praise such as petting for resopnding correctly to a correction/punishment? Or is it that the people you deal with have no concept of proper timing?

Several issues here. One is yes, most people don't have a clue about timing. Also, using Chucks statement, dogs are smarter than we give them credit for...another story...

We are told by Vets, books, your next door neighbor's brothers cousin(once you get a dog everyone you meet is a dog trainer <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ) that when a dog is chewing on something you redirect/channel the behavior. So the dog is chewing on my coffee table. I scold the dog, and give it something else to do(ie. bone, ball, toy...). Dog says if I chew on this you will give me a bone. This is fun. You are not paying attention to me, I chew, you throw a ball. Sure, I get a correction but wow what fun afterwards.

I had a guy come in he was telling me his problem was his dog stole his underware. He says after chasing him for a half hour(good move), he saysd I got smart. At which point I was like uh oh. He traded the dog. He went to the kitchen got a hot dog. Gave the dog the hot dog, and got his underware. I think we can all figure out where this went. Everything you do is training...whether you like it or not.

The question just happenes to be...who is the trainer, and who is the trainee?

I am never going to get any work done! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Ok, no the dog does not remember he took the shoes out. What he does remember is he got success himself. If I do this I get this. After so many repeatings it is a pattern.(Wow I have bbeen to alot of Flinks seminars, I am starting to sound like him...lol)

I feel the best way to stop it, is don';t allow it to happen. POut him in a crate. If you don't want to do that. Then set him up for failure. Put an ecollar on. (proper use is a different topic) 'Leave' go where you can watch but the dog doesn't know. As soon as the dog LOOKS at the shoes. ZAP! Again, before it happens.

Work! Baaaaa hey.....wait a min... your the one who keeps hitting the realod button! Hmmmmm looks like we have you trained well... we pose questions "Stimilus" you post answers "Response" giving you mental satafaction "reward" this is fun!

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

It is not that we think the dogs are idiots. It is I think we are teaching them something else. We have not stopped the habit of getting the shoes. We have in effect taught the dog as long as we are not around you can do it.

Here is a human anology. You have sex.(back when we still lived with mommy and daddy). You get caught. You get in alot of trouble. Heavy corrections. Is there any correction(within reason) to stop you from doing it again?

OK. Even though I think that the dog DOES know he put the shoes there, I think that if you think the opposite then you have a consistant argument. You can go back to work Todd!LOL

I get your point here, stop it before it happens... I agree 100% with that!

And no, no correction ever stopped me from sneaking the girls in at night....lol good thing my parents arn't good trainers!

YEAH!!! Now I get to go do the same thing except get paid for it...Although Thursdays are easier it is the more advanced classes. We have Sophomore, and Junior tonight. Privates the rest of the day.