 Re: New to Markers/doorbells
[Re: Laurel Plemmons ]
#363758 - 07/10/2012 02:48 PM |
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"I said yes then stepped back so he had to chase it a bit".
laurel, you need to stop and re read what Connie and Anne are saying. Your adding the "stepped back so he had to chase it" is adding another behavior in between the mark and the reward.
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Re: New to Markers/doorbells
[Re: Bob Scott ]
#363773 - 07/10/2012 10:49 AM |
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Re: New to Markers/doorbells
[Re: Laurel Plemmons ]
#363778 - 07/10/2012 12:01 PM |
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Is this video supposed to be loading the mark?. It appears to be reinforcing engagement using a marker that is already loaded.
In other videos, ME instructs loading the marker pretty much as Connie described it. The way I load it is to "yes" and reward, repeatedly, with noe behavior commanded or expected. I then reinforce it, kind like ME is doing in this video. I then start luring and forming individual behaviors, building on the engagement exercise.
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Re: New to Markers/doorbells
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#363779 - 07/10/2012 02:49 PM |
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Is this video supposed to be loading the mark?
No,I don't think so.
It appears to be reinforcing engagement using a marker that is already loaded.
Agreed.
Steve said: "Its plenty of luring into positions, chasing the treat, then yes is added."
But AFTER loading the marker.
In other videos, ME instructs loading the marker pretty much as Connie described it. The way I load it is to "yes" and reward, repeatedly, with no behavior commanded or expected.
Right.
I then reinforce it, kind like ME is doing in this video. I then start luring and forming individual behaviors, building on the engagement exercise.
Right. After loading the marker.
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Re: New to Markers/doorbells
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#363780 - 07/10/2012 12:19 PM |
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At http://leerburg.com/markers.htm
Scroll to:
The first step is called CHARGING THE MARK
"When we start charge the mark training the dog does not have to do anything to get marked. We simply say YES or click the clicker and give the dog a food treat. He doesn't have to sit, he doesn't have to come to us, he doesn't have to d anything. We just say YES and feed the dog, YES and feed the dog, YES and feed the dog."
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Re: New to Markers/doorbells
[Re: Laurel Plemmons ]
#363781 - 07/10/2012 12:26 PM |
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The key is he had marked what he wanted and nothing more is required of the dog. The dog then receives the reward.
My reward (tug or treat) can be directly presented to the dog, tossed, at the other side of the room, on a picnic table, on the ground, etc. As long as the dog knows where it's at they will get it "only" after I mark the behavior I want. Nothing is added by me after the behavior is marked.
That can only happen if the marker is properly loaded and the dog truly understands what marker training is.
The marker MUST be loaded properly for the dog to understand all this!!
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Re: New to Markers/doorbells
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#363782 - 07/10/2012 12:48 PM |
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Actually, the whole section makes it very clear. This is the first step. Everything else you see, all the action and luring and training, is after this step is done and proven (by the dog looking for the treat when you mark).
From http://leerburg.com/markers.htm ....
QIOTE: The first step in training markers is to study the system. Know where you are going and understand the the details of how your going to get there. In other words study the details of how the marker system works.
We start teaching this system by showing our dog that every time “YES" or every time they hear a click from a clicker they get a really high value food treat. The system starts with food and not toys. The reason we start with food is that many high drive dogs can't focus in the presence of a toy. They go into a zone where they can't think. This doesn't happen with food. So we set the foundation of markers with food and once that's done we introduce the dog to the work for to rewards.
The first training step is called CHARGING THE MARK. It can be done anywhere, in your kitchen, your basement, or your back yard. The goal of charging the mark is to teach the dog to associate hearing YES with knowing he is going to get a high value reward.
When we start charge the mark training the dog does not have to do anything to get marked. We simply say YES or click the clicker and give the dog a food treat. He doesn't have to sit, he doesn't have to come to us, he doesn't have to d anything. We just say YES and feed the dog, YES and feed the dog, YES and feed the dog.
New trainers need to understand that the only dog training going on during CHARGE THE MARK is to make the dog realize that saying YES means "my handler is going to give me a really good food treat."
There are handler responsibilities in CHARGING THE MARK. It is important that the word YES is never said at the same instant you move your arm to reach for the food treat. For this program to work there must be short time lapse in time between saying the word YES and moving the arm to produce the food reward.
You will know your dog is getting it when you say YES and the dog looks at you like HEY, GIVE ME THAT TREAT!!! Most dogs pick up the concept of a CHARGED YES OR CHARGE THE CLICK in the first training session. If you go out and say YES to a dog 30 to 50 times in a row he is going to connect the dots. END QUOTE
And this part is good (was for me, anyway) to practice without the dog, in a mirror:
There are handler responsibilities in CHARGING THE MARK. It is important that the word YES is never said at the same instant you move your arm to reach for the food treat. For this program to work there must be short time lapse in time between saying the word YES and moving the arm to produce the food reward.
By "short," at this very beginning, it means "short." I start with an instant (but no neglecting that instant; the instant of no arm movement is needed). Enough to make sure you are not telegraphing the arm movement to the reward until the marker is given (said or clicked).
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Re: New to Markers/doorbells
[Re: Bob Scott ]
#363783 - 07/10/2012 12:26 PM |
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The key is he had marked what he wanted and nothing more is required of the dog. The dog then receives the reward.
My reward (tug or treat) can be directly presented to the dog, tossed, at the other side of the room, on a picnic table, on the ground, etc. As long as the dog knows where it's at they will get it "only" after I mark the behavior I want. Nothing is added by me after the behavior is marked.
That can only happen if the marker is properly loaded and the dog truly understands what marker training is.
The marker MUST be loaded properly for the dog to understand all this!! |
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Re: New to Markers/doorbells
[Re: Laurel Plemmons ]
#363786 - 07/10/2012 12:41 PM |
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"There are handler responsibilities in CHARGING THE MARK. It is important that the word YES is never said at the same instant you move your arm to reach for the food treat. For this program to work there must be short time lapse in time between saying the word YES and moving the arm to produce the food reward".
Timing, timing, timing! Few things are so critical to ANY method of dog training!
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Re: New to Markers/doorbells
[Re: Laurel Plemmons ]
#363787 - 07/10/2012 02:40 PM |
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I'm thinking that it's such a simple procedure, so one-two, that it sometimes starts an article or video in a couple of words, and then much more is added about when to start to use a toy, when to add praise if needed. Also, later videos do expand a lot on it.
Loading the mark in video 219 is exactly the extremely simple procedure that is described by Ed in bold above.
THEN come the training and all the fun engagement stuff.
JMO!
"Does the Power of Training dogs with Markers show loading the mark?"
Yes.
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