Duane Hull wrote 06/11/2013 09:31 PM Re: Absence make the dog more sharp??? [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #379255 - 06/11/2013 09:31 PM
Duane Hull Webboard User Reg: 09-23-2011 Posts: 2692 Loc: Marrero, LA Offline	I've watched a super hard dog try to bite his ecollar receiver. He refused a command, got stimmed, complied with the command, and then tried to get at his ecollar. I don't think trying to counter a correction has as much to do with hardness vs. softness as it has to do with other areas of the temperament and training. Sadie
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Connie Sutherland wrote 06/12/2013 08:58 AM Re: Absence make the dog more sharp??? [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #379258 - 06/12/2013 08:58 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	I agree with Duane that "soft" is not this: " ...there are times when he will react to a correction by biting or showing teeth. Either when he is in high prey drive or sees another dog and I correct him too late. He also used to bite me when I said "heel" (I put a stop to that)." Not at all. Soft is sensitive to correction ... as Ed described it, "If a soft dog is corrected too hard it acts like you hurt its feeling. In some cases after a hard correction a really soft dog will lay down on the ground and quit working all together. Its like they give up." But JMO!
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Tresa Hendrix wrote 06/12/2013 12:06 PM Re: Absence make the dog more sharp??? [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #379276 - 06/12/2013 12:06 PM
Tresa Hendrix Webboard User Reg: 05-08-2008 Posts: 1473 Loc: Alaska Offline	Connie I was wondering since we think maybe a soft dog can be sharp (or at least it seemed that way with my chow/setter mix)...can a dog also be both hard and sharp? Compared to all the other dogs I worked with before, I'd say Logan overall is a very hard dog...maybe him reacting is just being pissed off/frustrated rather than actual sharpness. I don't consider him to be an aggressive dog even though in certain situations he will be. I helped raise a Smooth Fox Terrier and he was definitely a sharp dog, the owner says they are soft dogs but I disagree...to me he was just reactive, nervous and high strung. His feelings didn't get hurt, it was his nerves that got hurt by corrections...if that makes sense. A tired dog is a good dog, a trained dog is a better dog.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 06/12/2013 12:13 PM Re: Absence make the dog more sharp??? [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #379277 - 06/12/2013 12:13 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Oh, I totally read wrong. I thought you were saying combo of hard and soft. Ignore me.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 06/12/2013 12:13 PM Re: Absence make the dog more sharp??? [Re: Tresa Hendrix ] #379278 - 06/12/2013 12:13 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Back to  Quote: Tresa Hendrix .... I was wondering since we think maybe a soft dog can be sharp (or at least it seemed that way with my chow/setter mix)...can a dog also be both hard and sharp? Compared to all the other dogs I worked with before, I'd say Logan overall is a very hard dog...maybe him reacting is just being pissed off/frustrated rather than actual sharpness. I don't consider him to be an aggressive dog even though in certain situations he will be. I helped raise a Smooth Fox Terrier and he was definitely a sharp dog, the owner says they are soft dogs but I disagree...to me he was just reactive, nervous and high strung. His feelings didn't get hurt, it was his nerves that got hurt by corrections...if that makes sense.
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Tresa Hendrix wrote 06/12/2013 12:15 PM Re: Absence make the dog more sharp??? [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #379279 - 06/12/2013 12:15 PM
Tresa Hendrix Webboard User Reg: 05-08-2008 Posts: 1473 Loc: Alaska Offline	LOL!!! Hard vs Soft they are opposites but sharpness is like another factor almost. But I have no idea. A tired dog is a good dog, a trained dog is a better dog.
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Duane Hull wrote 06/12/2013 02:57 PM Re: Absence make the dog more sharp??? [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #379284 - 06/12/2013 02:57 PM
Duane Hull Webboard User Reg: 09-23-2011 Posts: 2692 Loc: Marrero, LA Offline	Okay!! Let's see how fast we can make this spinning thing go round... A hard dog, or a strong-nerved dog, is much less likely to be sharp than a soft dog or a weak-nerved dog, as a hard dog typically has strong nerves, making him more stable, aloof, and comfortable in his surroundings. This is the reason that some of these characteristics get lumped together; they often go hand-in-hand, while, by strict definition, they mean different things. I have heard of weak-nerved dogs being called "short-nerved", but, IME, these are also two slightly different things. While I may believe that my dog has decent nerves and is still sharp, I'm not foolish enough to think that she is strong-nerved or hard. She does have some high threshholds, but she also has some low ones. Her sharpness is an indication of these shortcomings. Sadie
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Duane Hull wrote 06/12/2013 03:13 PM Re: Absence make the dog more sharp??? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #379285 - 06/12/2013 03:13 PM
Duane Hull Webboard User Reg: 09-23-2011 Posts: 2692 Loc: Marrero, LA Offline	I helped raise a Smooth Fox Terrier and he was definitely a sharp dog, the owner says they are soft dogs but I disagree...to me he was just reactive, nervous and high strung. His feelings didn't get hurt, it was his nerves that got hurt by corrections...if that makes sense. IMO, the question is whether or not he went into avoidance. By your description, he is definitely sharp, but did the corrections affect his ability to perform.? If not, he's not soft but not necessarily hard. If the corrections hurt his emotions OR his nerves and it affected his ability to perform the behavior, even for a split-second, he is soft, even if only by degrees. Edited by Connie Sutherland (06/12/2013 03:13 PM) Edit reason: fix broken quote Sadie
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Carol Blumlein wrote 06/12/2013 07:12 PM Re: Absence make the dog more sharp??? [Re: Duane Hull ] #379292 - 06/12/2013 07:12 PM
Carol Blumlein Webboard User Reg: 03-29-2012 Posts: 421 Loc: Offline	Anyway....while all of you are debating semantics, I have decided to train every other day or just not daily as far as OB routines. I can still throw in training ditties sporadically on our walks.
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Tracy Collins wrote 06/12/2013 07:49 PM Re: Absence make the dog more sharp??? [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #379293 - 06/12/2013 07:49 PM
Tracy Collins Webboard User Reg: 10-09-2008 Posts: 1917 Loc: St. Louis, Missouri Offline	I'm not wading into "hard" and "soft" (way over my head) . but I have experienced a similar thing as the OP---my dogs perform better, especially on a new or difficult thing, several days later. I think their brains need time to "process" the new thing. It's like the old saying "I'll have to sleep on it." In sleep, the brain works out challenges and builds neural pathways that make newly learned tasks easier. That's what "muscle memory" is (when you can easily do something without conscious thought.). But the brain has to link up the synapses to make something "easy." Anyway, I've repeatedly seen a young dog working hard mentally to figure out a new maneuver on the agility course. Then, the next week the same dog performs the task perfectly. The only thing different was the dog had a week to work out the problem in his head. Cinco | Jack | Fanny | Ellie | Chip | Deacon
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