 Re: Training experience and theory
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#384864 - 10/22/2013 11:38 AM |
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Reg: 12-08-2005
Posts: 1271
Loc: Stoney Creek , Ontario, Canada
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Just curious, Natalie... what makes Ed's opinions valuable? If not experience, what is the currency that backs his advice?
It IS experience. I don't know any of you and I 'know' him.
But you're both missing the point.
So, then, why are you HERE asking for advice, instead of emailing Ed?
FWIW, I don't think I am missing the point. This thread was created because we were arguing about experience vs. theory on an unrelated thread. MY POINT is and always has been that you don't have the experience to contradict the people that you solicited for advice.
Where did Mike get off to?
It just gets to a point where the people on here giving advice are now staying out of these threads. It's pointless.
How do you KNOW Ed???
do you know that almost all the advice people are giving you is based on his teachings & techniques??? We arent' members of this site for "funsies" ya know.
Yet still you don't listen and jump way too far ahead then come here asking why it didn't work.
People get tired of giving advice that isn't heeded.
ps...im hoping Mike is too busy reading the other threads where advice has been given, and given, and given and wait...yes..given, yet still nothing changes.
God Speed Mike....we'll see you in a couple days.
Don't complain....TRAIN!!! |
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Re: Training experience and theory
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#384865 - 10/22/2013 11:39 AM |
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Reg: 10-01-2013
Posts: 343
Loc: nyc
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Don't attack my experience, attack what I say. That's what it comes down to.
If I don't know what I'm talking about it will show through what I'm saying and then there's no need to evaluate my experience.
What if I had 40 years experience, would the things I say sound different?
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Re: Training experience and theory
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#384867 - 10/22/2013 11:39 AM |
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Reg: 12-28-2005
Posts: 2316
Loc:
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Here's a few questions to ponder - what is natural about what the pup is doing? Why isn't it diving in and biting? Why is it changing dirrection as the sheep do to try and keep the heads of the sheep towards the handler? I'll also post a different video when I get back on my computer. I wish I had video of Kipp when he was first on sheep. He was isolated as a pup so not a lot of human interaction/trained teamwork. The sheep were flighty. He gathered and held them right to the handler. No training on a dog that by all rights should have cared less about working with someone.
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Re: Training experience and theory
[Re: Wendy Lefebvre ]
#384868 - 10/22/2013 11:40 AM |
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Reg: 10-01-2013
Posts: 343
Loc: nyc
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Just curious, Natalie... what makes Ed's opinions valuable? If not experience, what is the currency that backs his advice?
It IS experience. I don't know any of you and I 'know' him.
But you're both missing the point.
So, then, why are you HERE asking for advice, instead of emailing Ed?
FWIW, I don't think I am missing the point. This thread was created because we were arguing about experience vs. theory on an unrelated thread. MY POINT is and always has been that you don't have the experience to contradict the people that you solicited for advice.
Where did Mike get off to?
It just gets to a point where the people on here giving advice are now staying out of these threads. It's pointless.
How do you KNOW Ed???
do you know that almost all the advice people are giving you is based on his teachings & techniques??? We arent' members of this site for "funsies" ya know.
Yet still you don't listen and jump way too far ahead then come here asking why it didn't work.
People get tired of giving advice that isn't heeded.
ps...im hoping Mike is too busy reading the other threads where advice has been given, and given, and given and wait...yes..given, yet still nothing changes.
God Speed Mike....we'll see you in a couple days.
'Know' not know
So stay out. Why do you come to tell me that you stay out?
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Re: Training experience and theory
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#384869 - 10/22/2013 11:44 AM |
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Reg: 09-23-2011
Posts: 2692
Loc: Marrero, LA
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Working dogs = 2.5 years
Schutzhund club/ helper training = 2 years
Marker training pet dogs = 39 years
Other pets = 40+ years
Pre-veterinary medicine curriculum (university level) = 2 years
Sadie |
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Re: Training experience and theory
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#384870 - 10/22/2013 11:46 AM |
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Reg: 10-01-2013
Posts: 343
Loc: nyc
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It just goes to show you that experience doesn't mean much. At least in some cases.
Was marker training even around 40 years ago?
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Re: Training experience and theory
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#384872 - 10/22/2013 11:50 AM |
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Reg: 10-01-2013
Posts: 343
Loc: nyc
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Can I see some videos of your work? I put myself out there, I posted a video of the worst point of the playing sessions, when my dog ignores me.
So can I see some of yours?
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Re: Training experience and theory
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#384874 - 10/22/2013 11:55 AM |
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Reg: 12-28-2005
Posts: 2316
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Do a search for "Kenzi" You'll find some video clips from the last training contest. But it's just trick training with a Border Collie so I'm not sure it counts.
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Re: Training experience and theory
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#384875 - 10/22/2013 11:56 AM |
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Reg: 09-23-2011
Posts: 2692
Loc: Marrero, LA
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It didn't exist by that moniker in dog training circles. In 1976, when I got my very first personal dog, I read a puppy book that explained how to lure a dog into a sit. It occurred to my feeble brain that If I could lure a sit, I could lure and shape just about any behavior. Since I was opposed to compulsion, this is the route I chose. At some point, I started verbalizing my approval and disapproval during training and my dogs responded to my verbal indiicators.
When I came to this site after adopting my current dog, I learned that professional dog trainers had adopted a similar system. I watched ME's lecture on operant conditioning and revised my verbage and techniques into my own system, incorporating a lot of the methods employed by ME, EF, BF, IB, and others.
My experience doesn't count for a damned thing, bu even you have acknowledged some of the advice that I have given you and some of the points that I have made.
Oh, btw, red looks good on you.
Sadie |
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Re: Training experience and theory
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#384876 - 10/22/2013 12:01 PM |
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Reg: 05-08-2008
Posts: 1473
Loc: Alaska
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Somewhere I got lost trying to find the point of this thread.
A tired dog is a good dog, a trained dog is a better dog. |
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