Bob, I agree fully! All this has to be taken very seriously, especially because of the unpredictability you already spoke about.

I agree also fully with Mike. I wouldn't give up a dog so easily, but of course I would seek for help from a specialized professional. Like you, Mike, I hope Laura is able to stay the course. I do not know her, nor her whole situation, but I have the strong impression, that she will stay the course and that she doesn't take this from the light side.

We must also consider that she has the dog only since a short time and has already had some success with him. He is on the way to regain trust and to build a bond, which is the pre-requirement of recovery.

This is the point where I disagree with you, Anne. Of course you're right, a whole library of best DVDs can only help to a certain extent, it is not enough to rehabilitate a dog with such issues. But it shows, that Laura invests time to inform herself and that when she sees she needs further help she feels herself not too good or too wise or too experienced to seek help.

That's why she came to the webboard and I simply can't see anything odd about this. That she comes after having done during 30 days the exercises of a DVD shows that she knows it is better to come earlier than too late. This has nothing to do with being a novice, this has to do with recognizing that she doesn't know all.

I wish her she will go on with this animal as she does what concerns building relationship and that she additionally will follow Bob's advices.

 Quote: Bob Scott

Are you familiar with marker training? It can go a long way to re training this dog without conflict...

I would spend lots of time with this dog just creating a bond.

Spend extra time working your husband into the picture in order to avoid a possibly serious issue.

Yes, the last thing I would ever want to create with this GSD is a "One Man Dog" who eventually bonded with ME alone, and always HATED my husband What kind of "house pet" could he ever be, if that's how things turned out?

 Quote: Mike Arnold

Two cents...

I took in a rescue from a K9 training program. The GSD bit the Sheriff who was supposed to be the handler. The dog was two days from the needle.

It was a challenge. He is a challenge. He managed to give me a bite or two.

He was and is well trained. He has his idiosyncrasies, as do I.

He is my shadow. And he is always managed. And adopting him and seeing him through his acclimation to the house rules, and interactions, I would not change anything.

He could have been put down. But he wasn't, and I'm glad he wasn't.

He gets along with the other two GSDs. He is, as are they, my companion. I don't regret a moment of the decision to adopt him.

You get the dog you need, not the dog you want. Just my opinion.

I hope you are able to stay the course.

Two cents.

THANKS, Mike !!! I'm rooting for Laura and this GSD:

Taking him on would be way above my "pay grade" right now, but my heart goes out to the dog anyway -- I have a dear friend who has done Dobie Rescue and Sanctuary for MANY years ... This friend loves personally working with dogs who are a real challenge & she produces miracles with them

She also pulls quite a few Dobermans from shelters, who have been on the PTS list for aggression, but aren't actually "red zone" cases at all -- Once they get these dogs to her rescue ranch, where the whole "vibe" is entirely different than it was in a pound situation, then they often see a 180 degree turn-around in the dog's demeanor rather quickly ... Expert handling skills, and fail-safe management protocols, along with Non-Confrontational marker training may go a long way in saving this dog (I sure HOPE so!).

From what I am learning, he does know at least basic obedience very well. The first week I had him, asking him to do anything would result in a growl and possibly trying to bit. However, as he is starting to do much better with me, I am asking him to sit and wait before I pour his water and food, as well as sitting before I open his kennel door or any of the doors to go out or come back in. Not only is he listening, but he is sitting and laying down very quickly when I ask him now. My husband and I just took him for a 2 mile walk, and he did very good. I had my husband go so not only could he be a look out for people or loose dogs, but for the dog to see him as a source of good. Just before our walk was over and he was a little tired, I had my husband ask him to sit, which after a few seconds of thinking about it he did, and I had my husband reward him by tossing a few treats to him, as I don't want him to try to hand feed him just yet. I am starting to think he needs a good routine, clear rules and boundaries and a strong minded person to enforce them. If he is doing something and I give him a stern NO, he actually listens to me now.

On a side note. Most dogs I have worked with in the past, aside from my own, I am doing so to break their aggression for their owners, and to come up with a plan for the owners to follow on how to train and live with that dog. I try to figure out what sets them off and how to overcome it. I am not trying to build a bond with them as I am with this dog. So when I'm asking where to go from here, it is because I need to build a long lasting relationship with this dog.

My question is this. If he is still doing good after the 30 days, do I start with obedience, or just continue on working on his manners? I don't want to rush his training, as I do not want him to back slide. The food reward training is working so far for him.

 Quote: Laura Dobson

From what I am learning, he does know at least basic obedience very well.

The first week I had him, asking him to do anything would result in a growl and possibly trying to bite. However, as he is starting to do much better with me, I am asking him to sit and wait before I pour his water and food, as well as sitting before I open his kennel door or any of the doors to go out or come back in.

Not only is he listening, but he is sitting and laying down very quickly when I ask him now.

My husband and I just took him for a 2 mile walk, and he did very good. I had my husband go so not only could he be a look out for people or loose dogs, but for the dog to see him as a source of good. Just before our walk was over and he was a little tired, I had my husband ask him to sit, which after a few seconds of thinking about it he did, and I had my husband reward him by tossing a few treats to him, as I don't want him to try to hand feed him just yet.

I am starting to think he needs a good routine, clear rules and boundaries and a strong minded person to enforce them. If he is doing something and I give him a stern NO, he actually listens to me now.

On a side note. Most dogs I have worked with in the past, aside from my own, I am doing so to break their aggression for their owners, and to come up with a plan for the owners to follow on how to train and live with that dog. I try to figure out what sets them off and how to overcome it. I am not trying to build a bond with them as I am with this dog.

So when I'm asking where to go from here, it is because I need to build a long lasting relationship with this dog.

MY QUESTION IS THIS: If he is still doing good after the 30 days, do I start with obedience, or just continue on working on his manners?

I don't want to rush his training, as I do not want him to back slide. The food reward training is working so far for him.

I am not Qualified to give advice on this dog, but I truly HOPE you & your husband succeed with him

However, I have heard a Number of Experts on this board STRESS the FACT that "Slow & Steady" trumps creating a set-back, for sure !!! I've also read on here that Rescue Dogs, especially those with some Serious Issues, may take MANY MONTHS (maybe more than a year) to form a dependable & reliable Bond of Trust with new owners -- In this case, I believe that Taking all the Time needed to establish BASIC GROUNDWORK in Pack Structure & Good Manners, reinforcing already KNOWN COMMANDS (with Non-Confrontational food rewards), and thoroughly Integrating your Husband into simple SAFE (non-demanding & non-threatening) daily routines will help build the Foundational Bond you want ... I would concentrate on fine-tuning your Marker Training skills and NOT RUSH into Pushing any new Obedience lessons for a good while.

Just my 1 Cent, FWIW

Thanks, Candi, that's quite a bit more than 1 Cent! What Laura and her husband are carefully and thoughtfully approaching is stunning. I will certainly not add any more to this, because you've expressed everything already perfectly. I wouldn't be able to express it near to it, even if I were more experienced with dogs and if English were my mother language.

Laura, thanks for your love for animals and thanks for all the effort you and your husband are investing.

 Quote: Candi Campbell

 Quote: Bob Scott

issue.

Yes, the last thing I would ever want to create with this GSD is a "One Man Dog" who eventually bonded with ME alone, and always HATED my husband What kind of "house pet" could he ever be, if that's how things turned out?

I guess that would depend on how much she liked her husband.Sorry-couldn't resist.

This is under Dominant dog issues- What's dominant?

II think "bonding" with a dog is simply spending positive time with the dog.

To many try and make this into some sort of magical practice.

From the beginning my wife, kids and grand kids are involved with the feeding and even the grooming from the grandkids in particular.

Laura, the key for you is if you husband is willing to put in the time.

Not so much giving commands in the beginning but just "chilling out" with the dog.

Yeahhhh! My dogs were never human aggressive but they more or less ignored my husband because he didn't walk them, didn't feed, groom them, nothing.

After some time I got angry (sorry, not necessarily an example for other people ), but at least he finally accepted to put them at night into their kennels, feed them, brush them a bit (which they love immensely). He now also plays sometimes with them, not very often, as he is a bit a lazy guy, but he does.

It is fun time for the dogs. Now they also come to him, when they want to be petted or they make clear signs that they'd like to play with him not only with me.

That all this would have a good effect for my dogs I knew. But the most interesting thing was, that the more the dogs reacted so positively on him, the more he began to like to do something with them.

I found it great to observe that all this was a mutual process. As far as I can judge, Laura is going in this direction too, as she writes they both were walking the dog together. This is a good start and I bet he will do more and more! The positive reaction of the dog will result in positive reactions of him too.

Thank you to everyone for your comments and advice. I will continue to work with him and we will see where it leads. Only time will tell.