I have 2 Filas that guard my dog yard since I had some dogs stolen last year.
Since I got them, no problem. I also don't have many visitors...which is OK with me.
The Army in Brazil uses Filas. They have found that they are better in the jungle than either GSD or Mals. Better heat tolerence, stamina, and far, far stronger.
I looked at all the conventional breeds, and discarded them, narrowing the choices to the Fila, and the Caucasian Mtn. Dog, which is pretty much a Fila in different clothing.
Sure, APBT are the game dogs, I know, I've owned over 75, but mine are bred not to be human aggressive, they are very hot though, and don't like other dogs at all.

Milt,

Uhm, FIGHT drive CANNOT be found in all breeds. (Classic example is the Labrador). Even in breeds which may carry fight drive, it will not be found in all dogs of that breed. Same is true with gameness. Not all pitbulls are game. Sure, they used to be, when they were bred by dogfighters for the specific purpose of dogfighting where gameness is essential. But that required a carefull breeding program which culled out the less game. When pitbulls became "popular" and breed for looks and profit, proper breeding for gameness went out the window.

As for Jack Russell Terriers, I have one and they are one bad ass little dog - Patterdale people will say different and claim that their black dogs are better (don't know, never seen one in person). Unfortunately, the AKC has admitted the JRT into its ranks and, as they say, there goes the neighborhood. No quicker way to ruin a breed than to let the AKC get to extend it's influence with it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Gunner,

I've been thinking about the Fila, but I don't like loose skin, slobbery dogs (maybe I should just get over that). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Frederick, I stand corrected. What I was thinking was that no matter what dog breed, in a certain situation they will go into a fight drive for survival.I have seen a lab in fight drive.Yes I totaly agree its not the norm but its there. Dr.Carl Semencic has some interesting books on fighting dogs. I have never seen that little patterdale terrier in person either, but it has my interest. Can you imagine that little 12 pound dog killing a coon.

milt

If I still lived back east, I would have picked up a Patterdale to work with my JRT. I was also thinking of a Jagdterrier, but they are a bit big for going to ground. But since I moved to New Mexico last February, I have had no chance to hunt my terrier (he does try to dig to the prairiedogs, but they have too small a hole for him to get through and the digging process is too slow for him to catch up to them.

Yep, these little dogs will go down a hole and take on a coon much bigger (and fox, badger, whatever).

I wonder if anyone has tried to title a 15lbs. terrier in Schutzhund... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Happy Gnu Year

I think that this discussion is headed down the wrong fork in the road. It’s happening because some are using terms that have fixed definitions but they are being used another way. These terms have been used in the following way for dozens of years. To change their meaning, as has happened here, only brings confusion. I didn’t make up these definitions, they come from years of usage. We don’t want to get into the position taken by a famous (infamous?) man who said, “It depends on what the definition of ‘is’ is.”

Several terms should be defined here for the purposes of clarification:

“Combat drive” – any drive that a dog uses to engage an opponent. Examples of combat drives include, fight, defense, and prey. Some people don’t believe in the existence of fight drive and use another term, defense–aggression that is usually defined as a result of defensive drive turning into action.

“Fight drive” – a drive that involves the detaining or driving off of an opponent

“Prey drive” – the catching and killing of prey.

“Defense” drive – defending himself from a threat.

“Survival Drive” – the dog doing any number of things eating, fighting, running from a larger opponent, etc. that the dog does in order to preserve it’s life.

milt

Don, You are ok in my book. In my opinion the pit bull is most game. Fight drive can be found in all breeds. The Jack Russels has a book about a guy who used Jrt's to hunt rats.

Hi Milt
It is agree that all dogs where bred for a purpose, and I'm impressed by the JRT. Terriers are known for their rat killing ability and the rat is a worthy opponent.

But between the GSD, AM bull dog, APBT and the Fila, which dog has the most fight drive?
I agree that the APBT and AM bull dog maybe more game. They tackle wild boars and hold them (you think your JRT could do that smile).

But fight drive the way its defined and used Police k9/protection training, Which dogs are used predominately in this field (Police and Protection work) it would have to be the GSD & Malinois (no JRT here either). With all the testing being done if there was a better dog, wouldn't they be used?

The JR terriers are cute tough little dogs, but if I hand to pick a terrier it would be the Giant.

Gunnar McBride

I have 2 Filas that guard my dog yard since I haven't had any dogs stolen.

The Army in Brazil uses Filas. They have found that they are better in the jungle than either GSD or Mals. Better heat tolerence, stamina, and far, far stronger.

Gunnar
Though I doubt that the 150lb - 200 lb Fila has more stamina then a GSD or Malinois.
I would agree that they make great (untrained) natural estate guardains.
But how many Armies, Police dept, Protection clubs or owner actually use Filas over the GSD? How well do you think the Fila would do in Obedience and Agility?

We all have our favorites, some base their decisions on ambition or an undiscovered talents of their dog, others on tested and proven facts throughout the world.

I would say that the Fila would defeat a GSD in a dog fight, but is this the issues. No I think the subject was, which dog has most fight drive.

The Fila is a great estate guardain!

If I'm not mistaken, I've heard Ed say that he saw fight drive develope MORE OFTEN in dogs with a lot of prey drive. Also dogs with a degree of dominance. Of course they must also have a defensive drive to speak of, right?

While I think you can rule out some breeds for reasons relating to your odds, I for one have not seen or trained enough dogs to try answering this one.

I'm with Vince P, I don't think this is a fair question.


Gunnar McBride,
There is absolutely no way I'm going to buy that a Fila has more stamina than a Mal or GSD. I would question the heat tolerence as well.(especially with the Mal) :rolleyes:

The Fila's superior ability as a jungle dog was determined after a five year study by the Brazilian army at their JOTC.
It seems logical to me that a dog that was developed in this environment would be better at dealing with it than dogs that were bred for other purposes, like herding sheep.
I like the herding breeds, and all dogs, but for what I wanted, the Fila has been the best.
I don't do protection sports, but I suspect that a 180 lb Fila, Boerboel, or some of the "Bandog" breeds would put a serious hurting on a decoy.
Sort of like a QB getting hit by a Defensive Lineman vs a Safety.

Gunnar

Gunnar,

Yes, and we all know that a defensive lineman
has more stamina and is more heat tolerent than a safety. :rolleyes: (lol)...... a bit off topic don't you think?