I wouldn't call Dean Caulderon and Rex "Second Teir" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

i think this discussion also comes down to preference. obviously most poeple have soft fpot for either mals or GSD's, but correct me if i'm wrong here: it seems like for the most part mals are beeter suited for sport work becuase the problems with the weaker nerves can be worked on through training for the scenarios, but GSD's are better for patrol work because they are usually more confident and environmentally sound. just a though, i could be way off base though.

I've been dealing with both breeds for almost 10 years now, I love all the GSDs I've had. The bonds were special. The mals I've had have been healthier and worked as good or better, yet I didn't love all of them. Hard to explain. I have xrayed two Police prospects in the past two weeks GSDs both bad hips. I love the breed, yet I'm staring at 3 Mal puppies right now and my partner is bringing in 3 more in two weeks from his club in Holland. I can't argue with results. But, I'm also not giving up on GSDs either. I have a few new pups ordered here as well.

Bryan Colletti
President of K-9 CRIME STOPPERS INC.

Its rumored that they all came from similar back ground (I don't have the GSD starting pedigree in front of me) but several of the GSD's benifactors look like Mal/DS mixes. Until they got pretty (a personal note), but like Kevin mentioned the Mal seems to be very popular in the sport arena, because of its high prey drive and ability to be easily trained,(a vitue shared by the GSD).

But when distression is a valor like Dennis mentioned the GSD makes better human like reasonable decsions. The GSD was bred for his versitlity, as mention (and we stand on this)maybe not the best at any one thing, but more then competent and many. This is what makes the breed so special and endearing to some. There is no doubt the Mal is a slightly more athletic breed (making it a great breed), but it won't replace a GSD. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I love these dicussions. I handle a GSD - female, very good patrol dog. I have trained with many other handlers around the state, so we have a nice mixture of GSD's and the BM's. I understand the breeding process has gone downhill for the GSD's but I have seen a lot of BM's that shouldn't be doing what they are doing - as with the GSD's, but I still think we need to select and test the dog itself, not the breed. As you can tell I favor the GSD, but I would take a properly tested BM.

It's like comparing humans - the whites or the blacks or the asians, etc make the better football player. Select and test the person individually, not the race.

My personal opinion
Mark

A few years ago I would have said that the Mal was healthier, but over the last couple years I've seen too many that had odd ball problems crop up. Maybe they have better hips on average but between congenital eye defects, back problems, widely varying temperments etc. I don't place them above the GSD any more.
Since they aren't in as high demand as the GSD's it is a bunch easier to find an affordable working dog among the Mal, especially since Mal people accept non-pedigreed dogs or at least non-FCI pedigreed dogs more readily than GSD people do.
There are still great GSD's out there, just that they are spead a little thin among all the demand. This includes dogs that could be competitive in any sport. The Dutch love their KNPV and their dogs. They don't need the GSD much for their work, and they cost more $$ as well. They have esptablished lines for the work and going over to lines not so established in KNPV is a risk. I hear talk of the GSD not being suited for KNPV but when I've visited clubs in Holland I have yet to see a GSD that I would consider high quality at those clubs. Those folks are working hard at IPO w/ very few exceptions. The traditions of the KNPV have worked well for them, changing from what has worked may be a waste. This really has nothing to do with the breeds but history and tradition. Not to mention that there is a bit of National pride at stake and therefore why would you take a German dog to a Dutch program?
I work with many many breeds, GS, GSDs, Mal, Tuervs, DS's and many cross bred dogs from Holland. Pick what you like, but be picky, because ultimatly it is not the breed but the dog.
I for one think the GSD is King, and the Mal but a Prince.

Originally posted by Kevin Sheldahl:
A few years ago I would have said that the Mal was healthier, but over the last couple years I've seen too many that had odd ball problems crop up. Maybe they have better hips on average but between congenital eye defects, back problems, widely varying temperments etc. I don't place them above the GSD any more.
I am with you on this. Why do you think we are seeing a greater “odd ball” problem?

I am guessing that because the Mal people accept non-pedigreed dogs or at least non-FCI pedigreed dogs more readily than GSD people do. The mix breed that is non papered but sold as a 100% malinois might contribute to it.

I certainly think the mal as a breed, is often too much for a first dog handler. However some of the best dogs I work with are mals. I think Kevin sums it up nice by saying, “I for one think the GSD is King, and the Mal but a Prince.”

Though the Malinois is a great working dog, I think these two experts summed it up nicely. The GSD weakness (not being great at any one thing,as a breed, but more then adequate at many) makes it the best working dog, weather tackling an assailant on slipiery floors, or a loud touching toddlers the GSD seems to be the right choice, on average. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

A correction "or dealing with a loud touching toddler (stopped here, I meant to write) in the family, the GSD can turn it off and either move away or deal with he child, sometime soothing the kid out. I've seen them bring the kid a toy, like here now be quite!!!
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