If you're thinking of working or competing with the dog, having someone else train it is usually not a good idea.
If your only goal is getting basic obedience done on a dog, you can do in-kennel training, but the long range success of that involves a high level of dedication on your part to maintain the dog's training upon it's return home.

So overall, although I do in-kennel training myself, I think the results are mixed - the dog usually goes home with better Ob because a trainer did the work, but the dog *often* loses much, if not most of the training due to the owners not keeping up with it. This is why so many Ob trainers that do this type of training have taken to video taping the dog before it goes home, to show that the dog actually had learned the exercises ( this is done to stop people suing the trainer when the dog has forgotten everything that it learned, after the owners haven't practiced anything in six months with the dog after it got home :rolleyes: )
And of course, for the owners with the dedication needed to maintain the training to begin with, they don't really need in-kennel training now, do they? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

One way to really judge how well the training is going with your dog in that situation is to see how much time the trainer spends training *you*, the client ( I actually invite the client to stay with me in my home overnight, as most of them are from out of state and drive like 8 hours to get to me , so we spend a lot of time together when they pick up and drop off the dog, that way we're 100% on the same sheet of music for training - but I'm an extreme kinda guy! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )

The neighbors wonder why I'm marching a stranger and his dog up and down my driveway on a monthly basis........

Erica,
Since it appears that you're asking a question that only Kevin could answer, feel free to PM him regarding that matter, as it appears to be work related and not germaine to dog training.

Thanks!

Will
Thank-you for the input. We do have Eds tapes on basic obedience and bite training. Our 8 month old does have some manners, but we also know our own limitations to training a headstrong dobie after not owning a dog for 20 years. I would think that with the help of tapes, as well as enrolling in group classes with a trainer, That would be the first step, then, if we hit major snags, maybe try one on one with a trainer. Gunner comes from Schut. on both sides of the family tree, so I am also curious if he would have the right stuff for schutzhund or protection work. How do you pick a trainer? Are there any red flags to look out for?

Red flags?

First off, watch them work their own dog in Ob - it ought to be pretty sharp, as they can take all the time in the world to work their own animal. If they don't own a dog themselves, don't bother with them as a trainer - that's like going to a driving school and learning that the driving instruction rides a bike for transportation.

If they won't let you watch them train a few times before you engage their services, I'd worry some ( now this doesn't mean you watch them train someone's dog and ask like four trillion question during the two sessions that you observe, and then finally decide that you've learned enough from watching to go train your dog now - for free. Frick'in freeloaders! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> )

If you are able to, watch the trainer work a problem dog - that often reveals the depth of the trainer's experience. A lot of trainers advertise "We can train *anydog*!" - but that isn't often true. My current training partner and I laugh at people using that statement constantly. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

And if a trainer can't or won't supply references, that's always a bad sign.
Beware of the trainer that has the names of the celebrities whose dog they trained, or supplied splashed across their website ( yeah, great, you trained < insert famous football player's name here > , the owner is actually on the road nine months a year and interacts with the dog very rarely, if ever. ),Sorry, to me that is almost always a scam-type warning :rolleyes:

Red Flags? Sorry, but if someone is offering training services for dogs. . .that sends up a red flag to me right off the bat.


There are so few good dog trainers who are worth paying.


My advice to someone looking for training services would be to educate yourself as much as possible using books, videos, and many trips to different dog training groups and clubs before making a decision that will affect your dog for the rest of his/her life.

Will Rambeau wrote: First off, watch them work their own dog in Ob - it ought to be pretty sharp, as they can take all the time in the world to work their own animal.

LC: Will and I rarely disagree, one person thinks that's because we're the same person, ROFL, (a whole 'nother story) but if you look at my dogs you won't see very sharp OB. One dog is patrol trained (he does everything that a police dog would do) and I believe that the less formal, precision OB you put on such a dog, the less of a pure hunting animal he'll be. Don't get me wrong, he's extremely obedient in the areas he needs to be but, for example, his heel is not the precision you'll see with an AKC 198-200 point dog.

My other dog is just a goof and I've just put the minimum amount of work on him. These days most of my training time is spent on other people's dogs.

Will Rambeau wrote: If they don't own a dog themselves, don't bother with them as a trainer

LC: This generality usually, but not always, works. Donn Yarnall, one of the best police dog trainers on the planet, doesn't have a dog himself, except a pet that doesn't do anything special. But he spent 25+ years handling and training narco and patrol dogs for LAPD.

Will Rambeau wrote: If they won't let you watch them train a few times before you engage their services

LC: This is excellent advice. It lets you know whether or not his style of training is compatible with your own personal likes and dislikes.

Will Rambeau wrote: If you are able to, watch the trainer work a problem dog

LC: LOL, is there any other kind?

LC: As for Adlerhorst Kennels, I've known Dave Reaver for over 25 years. When I lived in that neck of the woods I'd go to his place for training every Sunday. I still consider him to be a friend. But these days Dave doesn't do much of the training. He's got people working for him who do the grunt work with the dogs, and so you don't get Dave Reaver anymore; you get one of his employees. They may or may not be as gifted as Dave. but this is often the case with any large operation. I've bought several excellent dogs from him and wouldn't hesitate to buy again, after a test, of course, but my style of training is different from his so I don't go there anymore.

wonderful... i feel if i just leave you guys(and gals) at it i'll learn everything i will need to know about trainers, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> . for now i'm going to start educating myself *highly* on both comp. Sch. and pers. protection training...

anyone know of good books that i could find at the library or large book store? something i maybe wont have to order to look through...

Heather,
What baseline are you and your dog starting your training at? And what's your experience level ( or what do you feel comfortable as a trainer doing, like food training, motivational training, strict compulsion )
The more you tell us, the more we can weed out books or video's that would or wouldn't suit you! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What would be the best estimate of the amount of time needed to continue to train and work with a Protection dog once it's completed it's initial training?

Seems like it would be fairly time consuming to make sure the dog stays sharp with it's skills and the owner/handler stays sharp with theirs.

And can the training time ease up significantly after a length of time, or need to remain fairly consistant over the dogs life?

It seems to me that the lifelong commitment to a training schedule would have to be fairly strict, but I could be wrong. I know alot of people show alot of enthusiasm for initially training and working with their dogs, and if you slack off in many other training venues it's not a big deal.

So what would be a fair estimate on a daily? weekly? monthly? training schedule for a protection trained dog and handler?

To answer Jenn's question. . .it depends on the level of protection dog you want.


If we are talking about a dog that will alert with an aggressive bark to strangers then I'd say once a month. . .or less.


A basic protection dog who bites on command and at aggressive cue (or home invastion etc) you could slip by with once every few weeks.

A dog that does searches, tracking, protection, multiple attackers, directed bites, etc, etc. . .you had better plan on training multiple times a week to keep things dialed in.