I do know as of 2 years ago he was still doing HGH's on some of his dogs. He did at least 6 dogs according to his wife. Not bad for a man of his age though.

Karl went to the dark side a long time ago and never looked back. If you want a dog from him, it's going to be showline.

Not exactly accurate. Karl still does have his herding lines and as recently as a few years ago did a nice breeding to one of the top 'working' line males in Germany. They get a LOT of emails/requests for puppies/dogs and almost all of them are from people wanting the german showline mix. As with many other people in Germany, gsd's are a way of making a living and he has done what it takes to do that. I personally would like to see more of the herding line/working line mix but that is my preference.

Karl is in his 80's and a few years back decided to retire and sold most of his herd of sheep. But he does still train and trial dogs in the HGH and uses someone else's sheep for training. If anyone has spent any time as a 'shepherd' and/or caring for a flock of 300 - 1000 sheep, you would really appreciate how retiring at the age of 80 from it is amazing!!! Training a dog alone for the HGH is an incredible thing!!!

I have found this thread to be very interesting. My dog Bella that is now a police k9 was always a surprise to me because I thought her pedigree was mostly show line ( I didn't really understand/know the difference when I bought her).

I remembered that she has Kirschental in her bloodlines, and upon looking at her pedigree I see that in the 3rd,4th, and 5th generation back on her dam's side, she has Wilko, Cardi, and Quista Vom Kirschental, respectively. On Her sire's side she has Uran V. Wildsteigerland in her 5th generation.

Could this explain how she is such an awesome, serious, and hard bitch? I honestly always thought she must just have been a throwback to some long ago ancestor.......hmmmm. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

Originally posted by Shelley Fritske:
Karl still does have his herding lines and as recently as a few years ago did a nice breeding to one of the top 'working' line males in Germany.

Training a dog alone for the HGH is an incredible thing!!!

Well, that's not entirely accurate either. He doesn't have "his herding lines" rather he has SHOWLINES. Yeah, he did an outcross or two to working males, not impressed.

You REALLY need to read Manfred's thoughts, notes, and conversations on the current state of the HGH!!!

There are of his lines that go back to working lines. Here is an example Winnie vom Kirschental. Winnie is out of Fenga. Vasko goes back to some Bungalow stuff. I have a male out of Xissie who is out of Amie who is out of Winnie. He does still have some dogs from the older lines but yes, most are mixed now with showines. However, when Karl first started 'mixing'the lines, there was not such a split either between german show line and working line like there is now.

not impressed You don't need to be. However, I have taken my male and bred to a mostly working line (that also goes back to Kirschental stuff) and produced 3 certified bomb dogs and a certified narcotic dog (out of 9 pups). Think those stats are pretty good. A couple of the pups could have been dual purpose but most people wanting bomb dogs do not want them trained in protection. Hunt drive is very present in these lines.

You REALLY need to read Manfred's thoughts, notes, and conversations on the current state of the HGH Well, actually I have. I have also been in touch with Ellen N. on many occasions and a good freind of mine has a bitch from those lines. she has also trained first hand with Manfred and I get first hand knowledge of it all. Thus, I do have first hand knowlege of it.

I also have my own flock of sheep and train and work my dogs in tending, so I do know what it takes to train a dog and I know what traits/drives I NEED in a dog to do the work.

Shelly wrote: "He does still have some dogs from the older lines but yes, most are mixed now with showines. However, when Karl first started 'mixing'the lines, there was not such a split either between german show line and working line like there is now."


Come on now. . .25% of Xissie's pedigree is from working herding lines. The rest is a smattering of some of the most popular showline creatures out there. There isn't "less" of a working and showline split with THOSE dogs. LOL Not even freaking close. . .those are showline dogs with little gentic worth. Jeck Noricum??!!?? Fedor Arminius??!!!??!!!?!! For Christ's sake even Urine vom Wildsteiger Land, who was a decent working showline dog, didn't pass enough of those genes on to be worth a piss to the breed.


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Is there a difference between the kirschental and kirschesch breed line????....or are they both the same as showlines dogs????...maybe the same guy or his son or maybe his brother???

 Quote:

Originally posted by Robert VanCamp:
Shelly wrote: "He does still have some dogs from the older lines but yes, most are mixed now with showines. However, when Karl first started 'mixing'the lines, there was not such a split either between german show line and working line like there is now."


Come on now. . .25% of Xissie's pedigree is from working herding lines. The rest is a smattering of some of the most popular showline creatures out there. There isn't "less" of a working and showline split with THOSE dogs. LOL Not even freaking close.

Not to mention that Xissie herself is linebred:
5,5,5-4 Palme WildsteigerLand
4,4-3 Uran WildsteigerLand
5-3 Xitta Kirschental

Now doesn't that sound like a "modern herding" pedigree? :rolleyes:

Like I said...over to the darkside. Perhaps some should realize that they're not talking to people that have no knowledge of pedigrees.

...

Well . . . to you to!


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