Mike

This Jerry Cudahy is a top notch ring sport trainer not saying that there are not other opinions out there. But this is the sport that he loves and makes his living in.

Like you I thought these dogs had tremendous prey&fight drive. Diving through flames and water to get the bite. But seeing is not believing in this case. The trainer that lives it, explained it breifly in another thread. This is not to say that their fight/combat drive cannot be developed.
Some of these dogs cannot handle the stress that occurs in fight drive and would not be selected.

Its done all in Prey, when he posted this and no other French Ring trainer, said he was wrong. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jerry check PM's

I have a great male that I have titled in obedience, Tracking, and now starting him in french ring. I will also be working him in what I consider a completly diffrent type of training, Police K9. I will use all the other types as a base to build on. He is also a great temperment. Good with children and stable around people. Protective when needed. He comes from strong lines as well. but mom and dad had no titles. That never bothered me. The last test is the hips and elbows. I will then consider the dog to be breedable. The Titles I get on a dog and the high points I get are for me and prove me as a trainer. Yes my dog makes me look good. But training for a CD or CDX or any other trail are simple if you put the time and effored into it. Having the right dog can make it easier but, you need to look at the overall dog. structure, temperment, and trainablity. When everything falls into line, your set. I hope that I am right on this. This is just my opinion. Like to hear what anybody else has to say, Im still learning. help is always needed.

Talk soon
Dave

Untitled dogs never really bothered me either. If I could see an untitled dog in person, and how he/she reacted to his/her environment, training, etc., it was much better that looking at a titled dog on a piece of paper which I could not see. I'm not too title crazy, as I don't think they accurately justify or distinguish one dog from another; I think they more accurately justify the handler, and his/her experience as a trainer. IMO, you have to see the dog in person and then be the judge, or you're taking a chance, even with all perfect scores and all the titles of every sport in the world.

If or when I decide to put titles on my dog, they will be for me and somewhat tell me where I am as a handler(as you said), but will not accurately label his abilities. With that said, I would go for it and do as much with him as you can, as I plan to, for the experience more than anything else. I just love the training.

I agree with you mike, I title to see where i am at. I do it because I love to train and enjoy doing things with my dogs.

Dave

I personally think Allen could not have said things better concerning this topic; and I also agree if you purchase a dog from a breeder with a known "excellent" reputation then you are ahead of the ball game. Since, he or she should have taken the time to carefully select and meld genetic profiles between males & females to strengthen existing and or improving these attributes for the benefit of the breed. Titles are important; however, as Allen stated, alot of us become "tunnel visioned" with this matter and lose sight of why we are breeders.....PROTECTING, IMPROVING, MAINTAINING, AND SELECTIVELY BREEDING THE BEST SPECIMENS possible to produce "EXCELLENCE."

>>when he posted this and no other French Ring trainer, said he was wrong..

***Don, JC is absolutely correct...but I will go even farther to say that ALL established programs out there can be accomplished to their highest respective level in PREY.

>>but will not accurately label his abilities...

***But still MORE accurately than without ANY title.

Titels/papers are what they are; a note on a piece off paper. Do you want to sell big time go for a fulltitled pedigrée and alot off people will be persuaded by this. If you want a good dog than it is up to you to do a selection based on what you see and reputable outside input. The best dogs out there don't necesary have papers. I own a 2 year old mal and if you look at his paperwork you'll be impressed but he isn't the superdog that his paperwork says. He's good, better than average but not a champion. Yesterday my next dog was born. Totaly without papers but... I know the lines 30 years back, over 300 dogs off this lines started training and a very big part off them went to competition and this with succes. Future will tell if i made the right choise. It's the same gamble as buying a fully papered dog from champion parents.

Greetings

Johan

 Quote:

>>but will not accurately label his abilities...

***But still MORE accurately than without ANY title.

Brigita,

I still believe that dog sports today are more of a test for the handler vs. the dog. On the other hand, anybody with a litter of pups for sale is going to use a title as a marketing tool. Why wouldn't they? Looks good on paper right?

But there are qualities in our dogs that most of us will never see, because we choose to compete in a sport that meets smaller needs, such as a demand for prey drive over defense. My question to that: What the ....?? And sadly, it seems as though the rules in sports are being modified as time goes on, perhaps to make the sport more versatile for the unsuitable dogs. It surely isn't getting more difficult. I don't know why, but I sense some political reasoning behind it.

Of all the dog sports, American Street Ring would probably be the toughest to compete in. Therefore, titles in ASR would mean much more to me than a price tag. By the way, these statements are no knock to the Schutzhund. Schutzhund just is what it is, and not what it use to be.