"You're taking your dogs to public property and letting them run loose when you know they are not trustworthy with other people? You are completely in the wrong. The size of your yard does not give you the right to endanger other people, particularly children. "

I Agree.

I have a 1 1/2 year old GSD/Akita mix and he was as over socialized as over socializing can be. Since he was 6 weeks when we got him, everyone was playing with and petting him. There was company/friends over everyday.
He is excellent with people and especially children. Anyone can go up to him and pet him with no fear or being bitten.
This is good if you are raising a 'pet' but is not necessarily good for a protection dog.
I dont want the guy I see at Petco to reach over and pet my dog. If he asked it would be a different story, but the general public assumes its ok. They just dont know any better!

Denise, thanks for the richard remark. perhaps we will meet one day and you can show me your puppy's fight drive. I will let you pet my dog all you want. All I heard in these responses was control. Or so and so will pull my dogs tail from behind. At least Kay's response was the truth, I used to feel like that! Show me where it ruined your personal protection dog. Don't give me this goofiness about your control issues. I know I hold some serious records for having too many of those <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Denise, I have VERY social dogs, yet they are not out of control when I'm in public. That's a training issue, not a 'social' issue. Teaching a pup manners and how to behave in public is a separate issue from a pup's socialization skill.

Will say that a happy, confident and social pup is MUCH easier to train to be 'polite' in public than one who has not been socialized and is fearful or insecure in new places and with new people. Additionally, both my GSD's sound like they were like yours when young, and (frankly) I encouraged them to be that way. Loving everyone and everything and looking at everyone as their next best buddy. Interesting thing is, that the aloof GSD thing started hitting them aroun a year. Meaning they had the socialization to be happy and confident around new people, but definitely knew the difference between friends (who they would still like to jump on to greet) and the rest of the world (who are interesting but easy to pass by).

I know that the group obedience classes with all the socialization involved, and distractions, did wonders for MY training skills in teaching my dog how to behave. Worked the fastest and best for us.

I don`t let them around children off-leash. We go to the field farthest from the play ground and stay in the middle of it. They aren`t out of control renegades or vicious.I can see anybody coming and call the dogs from a long way off. I actually don`t let Morris off leash at all because he has decided not to listen to me before. Elvis is actually a very friendly dog. Just flinches away when his head gets touched. Einstein is the only dog of ours that needs to be completely away from other people. He goes for walks and play at around 4am. I don`t take him at times when kids or many other people are around. Sometimes if there`s people at the park I try to get them to throw a ball just so that he learns that people aren`t something to be afraid of. The only times that I have to introduce him to people is at the dog park. My mom is the one that takes him there. I just go because the dogs don`t listen to my mom. Our dogs are under control 100% of the time they are with me in public. I probaly could have phrased my first post better. I didn`t mean that Elvis or Morris are dangerous. I just want people to ask first because I can explain things like not touching the top of Elvis`s head or that I don`t allow little kids to pet him. Einstein has no contact with anybody outside of our family except for them tossing a ball from about 10ft away from him. Another thing is that I don`t just let them run loose. I play two ball with Einstein and Elvis gets to chase a tug I run with. Einstein just wants to bring the ball back so I can throw it again and Elvis is too focused on the tug to care about mere people or other dogs passing 500ft away.

One thing I wanted to add is that Einstein is not aggresive, he`s scared. If he is on a 16ft line and somebody trys to approach me he is pulling at the end 17ft away from them.

I think you are still missing the point. The point is people do stupid things to other people's pets. I don't want some moron doing something that I know my dog dislikes. That does not make him dangerous. And you know what, if someone gets bit because they grabbed Sabian in a way that he dislikes, then they deserve it. I may pet your dog one day, but I"LL ASK FIRST.

Is anyone really reading these post, or are you just glossing over and picking the things you don't like?

Please don't scold me. Don't take my remark to Dennis as a cry for training help. My pup is never out of control in public, but there are occasions when people invite him to jump on them, even going so far as to pick up his front legs.
I never said that my pup was for protection. Personally, I don't really see the point of personal protection dogs. (sorry everyone else).
Nor did I say that I'm having socialization problems. I could care less if Sabian loves everyone because he was supposed to be my therapy dog, until he showed me otherwise.
The point is I don't want him to be approached the wrong way by people who don't know how to handle my dog. He is a puppy and he plays like a puppy. Some little girl thought is was cute to run up to him and dangle her hand in front of him. That would be cute until he playfully grabs her hand in his mouth and jumps on her with his 80lb frame. I know he would hurt her, but does her daddy know that? Next thing I know, I'm in trouble because some kid touched my pup w/o permission and didn't enjoy his version of play. Should I correct him for this? was the question I asked Dennis. Why should I?

Why am I bothering to explain myself to anyone? Is it so hard for you to understand that I just don't want people touching my pet WITHOUT ASKING? Just ask first. Isn't that my right? Didn't I pay for him? Why does that require an explaination?
Perhaps I'm taking your post wrong, but the smug way in which you insinuate that my dog must be dangerous or out of control is evident. Doesn't Ed himself say in one of his videos and an article that he doesn't let anyone pet his dogs?
By the by Jenn, I've been told by my instructor that Sabian is doing excellent in obedience class, and is well on his way to competition obedience work. And even they asked first before they touched him <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think that everyone is forgetting that we, as responsible dog owners, are not only rare, but we understand dogs. The rest of the general population think of dogs as something to cuddle on the couch with you, lick your face and share your ice cream cone. It doesn't occur to them that the cute dog in the back of the SUV with the door open may be at alert and will bite their hand off if they try to pet him. We, as the responsible dog owners, bare the burden of thinking for these people.

Also, many of the people who have posted on this thread have different goals for their dogs and different philosophies on training. So, know your goals, know your dog and act appropriately.

If your goal is a house pet, then correct your puppy for biting or chewing on people/kids and/or their clothing. If your goal is PP, don't bring your puppy around strangers, especially strange kids. (You can train them to ignore strangers later.) In an ideal world, you would be able to bring your puppy around strangers and they would know what to do and what not to do. This is not an ideal world.

Denise. I don't have any issues with you, your dog or your training. I'd just suggest that you might not have taken YOUR training (not your dog's) to the level that you need to accommodate the idiots in the world. (I know it's hard to think like an idiot, but you have to try. ) If every time you go to Petsmart, someone tries to pet your dog without asking, and your dog has a tendency to bite or jump, then you either don't go to Petsmart or you announce LOUDLY to anyone walking near you "don't try to pet my dog unless you ask." It sucks that it's necessary to do that, but most people just don't think before reaching out to scratch a dog on their head or pat their butt. You'll also have to announce this to the people in front of and in back of you in line. Unfortunately, this will cause the uninformed to think that you have a mean dog. Though, who really cares what the stranger in line in front of you thinks of your dog?

My 15 month old, Roxy, used to jump on EVERYONE because she's a "people" dog and would get SO excited when anyone would try to pet her. So, I'd have to warn people to use a low tone of voice with her and I would also warn people that she might jump and lick their face. If a kid asked to pet my dog, or came at her without asking, I'd have to quickly put her in a down so she wouldn't jump. I don't even know how many times I corrected her for jumping, but the excitement overcame the correction. In the last 2 or 3 months she has just now stopped jumping on people. Since Roxy is now not jumping, and she doesn't nip/bite at all, I'd feel completely comfortable letting her roam free during an elementary school recess.

Ripley, my 5 1/2 month old, on the other hand, is like a baby alligator. So, I only allow people to pet his back. I also NEVER take him into situations where a stranger could get their hands on him without my supervision.

I think that the ONE thing we can all agree on in this post is that most people don't think AT ALL before reaching out to pet your dog and that means that WE have to think for them.

Here's my philosophical view on this...and other matters. After thinking about it, I consider the following rule to be a corollary of Murphy's Law:

"Plan for idiots." (Specially if you have a dog you take along with you out into this idiot-ridden world.)

Another corollary, for the dog world, is "socialize your pups well, for you may want them stable and confident as adults."

Allowing your well bred non-slutty dog to be petted, should actually be (if he's well bred) teaching your dog tolerance and restraint. I think dogs that are well bred don't like to be petted as ADULTS as a general rule...and I stress WELL BRED. In all honesty, I think if you have a HOT DOG, it should be proofed in training scenarios, against foreseeable idiot acts...and thus SHOULD be petted.

To pet, or not to pet? That is the question. My answer...the latter.

In public, if you have a good looking dog people are going to want to pet him whether you think it's good or not. I always try to plan for the worst and be pleasantly suprised when nothing bad happens. I have had dogs in the past that if you touched them or I you got bit. I had some seriously close calls where my dog would have been put down. I have always believed that stupid people should pay for their stupidity; ie: getting bit by a dog for touching it after I said that he will bite you if you touch him. I have always felt that when I do something stupid, repercussions occur. However most people want to blame someone else for their stupidity. Keeping that in mind, I let people touch my dogs so that bad things don't happen to them. I also have not heard anyone say that allowing people to touch thier dog ruined his effectiveness as a ppd. I like my dogs to understand that people are just trying to be nice. I also have found over the years that when my dogs don't like someone that I should watch that person with caution. So far they have been right every time.