This shows (if true) a very poor understanding of the law in NYS. First off it would be the same charge of Criminal Trespass whether he went into the house unlawfully or over a fence unlawfully. The lower level "Trespass" is only a violation and would fit if there was nothing up to exclude intruders and you advised the subject to leave the property and he refused.
The next step up from Criminal Trespass would be Burglary where you have unlawful entry and you have to show intent to commit a crime therin....ie. he has to attempt to or commit another crime while inside.
PF and DPF is clearly outlined in NYS Article 35, Justification of Use of Force.

 Quote:

They both opined that had the individual entered or tried to enter the house, justifiable force could have been used. Outside, fence or no, the home owner had a means of retreat to avoid confrontation, was in no way prevented from retreating, and should have left the confrontation to the cops

This shows a very poor understanding of NYS Law. In NYS if you are on your own property you are not obligated to retreat and him being outside the house or inside the house does not make any difference law wise. He already passed one barrier to gain access to the property ie. fence, that is why there is a higher penal law charge of Criminal Trespass compared to just Trespass.

Oh and where are these BIG BUCKS that you say police officers are getting paid...I have never seen BIG BUCKS <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Your right on one thing though...you werent there. Only one person was. I personally would not wait for him to get within striking range....thats just stupid. I love my dogs but I do value my life higher. If you wait for the cops u could wind up dead....I know response time and alot can happen in a short period of time. He was lucky that a patrol unit was passing through...talk about timing.

Pat

hey mike i guess everyone is diffrent...i guess people jump over your fence at night more then others so it is trivial to you, but if i was put in that situation maybe i would have done the same thing......who knows?thats never happened to me before but i know one thing is for sure, not to knock any police officers on this board but do you just think that a cop is waiting next door to catch the guy before anything happens to you. i kinda dont think so.

Midnight, running guy jumps on a car to leap over a fence after repeatedly being warned not too.

Thank God you had the dog out with you, I don't think he was stopping to ask for directions................

Mike, so again, what's the point in having a dog trained in protection then?

The point is the dog may very well save your life, but you may have to pay for that protection in court, just be aware.

It helps to know your state and local laws regarding the use of deadly force. Study them now and get your game plan together *ahead* of time so you know what to do both during and after a deadly force encounter.

I've defended myself in the past with the use of deadly force, and because I knew the correct thing to say ( "I gave the person a chance to surrender, he had a knife in his hand and continued to advance on me and I was in fear for my life and forced to defend myself" ) my only hassle was the police taking my shotgun for evidence - which was returned in a timely manner. I didn't even need to hire an attorney, so my only expenses were for the ammunition used and clean-up.

It helps a lot to be a conservative state that readily allows it's citizens to defend themselves when needed.

Good prior planning helps to ensure good results.

In Louisiana, they don't even have to have a weapon if they're in your house, all you have to say is "it looked like he had a knife, I feared for my life, so I shot." A couple of years ago, a guy in Baton Rouge shot a guy that was stealing his car from his driveway, the judge ruled that he was justified as he was protecting his home & property. Personally, if someone is in my yard and my dogs are going nuts and they continue to come towards the house/me/the dogs, they get ONE warning from me in a VERY loud clear voice, after that the 12ga does the talking.

Will, don't forget the ones ahead of the game does little things like entertain themselves changing rounds from one magazine to another to prevent spring failure <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> When I lived in North Carolina Hoke County, I inquired at the Sheriff department about when I could use my dog. My home had been broken into and some unpleasantly looking characters were all of a sudden walking past my house all the time. One day Toro (My very serious Protection and guard dog trained Pit) started going bananas. I got up turned on the back deck light to see someone running from my fence, I ran to get my gun, and by the time I got my keys and made it outside (I knew I'd end up having to drive around looking for them) they had cut through yards and was high tailing it on the back street. I had puppies at this time and was sure they were trying to steal some. In North Carolina it is a Felony to steal a pitbull. The sheriff said I could have let Toro go and as long as he caught him while they were in the yard I could use assault force to apprehend them (dogs in NC are not considered deadly force). Instead of going back to the bedroom and then grabbing the keys, if I had just opened the door and ran 4ft and let Toro out, he would have caught him long before he would have got to the street, then he said it didn't matter if it bled over into the street, as long as the engagement started in the yard. He said it would have been the same thing as me running the guy down and holding him for police to get there. You are also in NC allowed to defend your car that way. Your car is considered an extention of your home. The law says those words exactly. There was also no leash law in Hoke county, so when I would see them walking up the street, I'd get Toro place him at the edge of the yard in a down stay, and as they got near I'd quietly give him his watch command (which he stays put but goes civil in the very ugliest of ways). Then I'd meander around my yard doing yard work as he was going civil, and I'd be rakeing with, my XD-40 holstered on my hip. Needless to say, the very small usual 4-5 hoodlums that would walk the neighborhood, stopped passing in front my house, they would take the next street over and cut through a yard at the end <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm glad everything worked out for you . It sounds like you have a good dog there Mr. Dechellis . I think in most areas you would not be charged criminally but as you know in a civil court they can do just about anything and from my experiances with juries they can make some stupid decisions .

As a Police Officer I have been forced to make many split second descisions and I know how annoying it is to have someone else comment on those descisions later in the comfort of there homes or offices . You made a hard fast descision and it worked out for you and that's great .

But I also reexamine every dangerous incident I go to , to see if I could have done anything safer . I also talk to other officers and get there take on it . Sometimes there input is valuable sometimes it's not . It may be good to ask others qualified in that area if there are somethings you could have done differently , in case a similiar situation happens again .

As a Police K9 Handler in a large city and having read some of the other comments on this thread I would just like those reading this thread to take into consideration a few things before you use your dog .

#1 The badguy might be armed . (something to think about if you are going to go assist your dog while he's dealing with the badguy or you are going after the badguy with your dog .)

#2 The badguy might be followed shortly after by a Police Officer .

#3 The Badguy might be followed by a Police K9 .

#4 The "badguy" might be a Police Officer . We find ourselves running through peoples yards alot .

I only bring this up because I have been in this position alot during my career . I have had people send there dogs out after me and my K9 partner many times . I have also had homeowners confront me with a weapon . 1 person actually fired off a shotgun into there backyard shortly after several of us had walked through it .

Legally a person may be in the right for using there dog . But , like Police K9 Handlers if a civilian is going to deploy there dog into a dangerous situation they should try to look at the situation as thoroughly as possible before doing so .