Now Roger, in order to have naturally upright ears, the breeders would have to introduce other breeds, which would totally change everything else. To imply that those who crop their dogs ears are cruel, is really unfair & not true, especially when you take into consideration modern day medicine & the effectiveness of pain killers. If ear cropping & tail docking were so traumatic, then dogs that have had the procedures done would not let anyone touch the effected areas for the rest of thier lives, sort of like a hand shy dog.

As the original poster to this thread I feel like a should respond to the new posts. To each their own opinion... natural ears and tail... that's fine. I got my Dobe's ears done later than usual because my breeder sucked! Found out too late. My pup did fine, her ears were a little sensitive, but we kept up on her pain meds and she was good. The tails and ears are docked because they are easy point sto grab onto for a would be attacker of which the Doberman was originally bred to defend against. Kristel, please correct me if I'm wrong... I thought that I might have my girl do Schutzhund, but there are no clubs in our area so it is for cosmetic more so.
Her ears aren't all the way healed yet but they are doing well. We will start posting them next week.
I also am not that bothered by having my thread jacked, it's all good. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mauricio-

Dealing with the cropped ears after it's done can be a PITA like Steve said. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks because you are the one that deals with it and it's your dog. The ears may not stand. The vet should let you know whether your pup has good ear 'leather' or not if they are good at what they do.

Good luck!

You can make a good determination of whether the pups' ears will stand well if they have a little "lift" at the base of the ear, rather than hanging straight down the sides of thier head. Also look for symmetrical ears.
My very first Dobe was a rescue that had natural ears. He was probably about 5 months old at the time I had his ears done. If faced with that old a pup again, I would NEVER do it. It was far more painful for him than if it had been done at the proper time. They did stand and looked beautiful, but if I had it do over, I would not have put him through it.
I much prefer the cropped "look", but I'm trying to make myself get used to the idea of uncropped Dobes, because the writing is on the wall.

You are right Cat. Originally it WAS to have less for attackers (or attackees) to grab. They are supposed to be a sleek, fast, compact dog-missile;-) I used to be VERY against the idea of cropping and docking until I worked for a Dobe-breeder (and subsequently became one) and educated myself about it. I had all these terrible images in my mind of puppies in pain and suffering....then saw the REALITY of it which was a completely different story. I still haven't met a head-shy Dobe, either. My comparison with spaying was to put it in perspective. Cropping is a fairly quick external procedure that heals rather quickly. Maybe it is primarily cosmetic, but for a working dog the big floppy ears ARE cumbersome, not to mention prone to infection. Spaying on the other hand is a very invasive MAJOR surgery; a full histerectomy for those of you who know what THAT'S like. Most people spay (and I AM pro-spay, btw) because it is inconvenient to deal with cycles and have to worry about containment of a female in heat; so basicly for our convenience. I agree with spaying, and having had MANY rescue dogs (I currently have 2)think it is the most responsible thing to do to counteract unwanted pregnancy. And of course there are health benifits as well. I'm just trying to put cropping into the "no big deal" category that it belongs in. I realize there are two sides to everything; no one's point is invalid; but that's my experienced, dog-loving perspective. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I was going to leave this as an 'agree to disagree' situation, Susan, but feel I have to respond to all those who are defending what I consider to be indefensible, namely a completely unnecessary surgical procedure, which must result in some pain/discomfort.

That, IMO, is a form of 'abuse', however mild you assure me it is. The dog has no choice in the matter.
All I hear is that it's not 'too traumatic'.

What really puzzles me is the perceived necessity for such a procedure.... uncropped dogs look, IMO, much nicer and more natural without it. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

(As I said earlier, I can see some justification for docking, to avoid injury to the Dobe's very thin natural tail.)

But I am not going to change the world on my own, so let's just leave it as a different way of seeing things.

Hey Roger could you give us your opinion one more time? I dont think I heard you the first two times...

Steve, I think you're my new best friend <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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Hey Roger could you give us your opinion one more time? I dont think I heard you the first two times...

I don't know why people say things on web boards that (hopefully) they wouldn't say face to face. I thought you might appreciate that more than others after a lot of people (unfairly, IMO) jumped on the bashing bandwagon regarding your pup's pics and name. Guess not.

Simon

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 Quote:

Hey Roger could you give us your opinion one more time? I dont think I heard you the first two times...

I don't know why people say things on web boards that (hopefully) they wouldn't say face to face. I thought you might appreciate that more than others after a lot of people (unfairly, IMO) jumped on the bashing bandwagon regarding your pup's pics and name. Guess not.

Simon

Simon,
I can only hear the same thing repeated so many times before it gets old. And I can tell you 100% without a doubt I would say it to his face in a heartbeat.
I came into this thread offering information not to watch people get attacked for cropping. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but this thread is for info. If you want to throw in your personal opinion fine but we dont need to hear it twice without any helpful info attached.
My other question is this Simon am I attacking him or is he attacking the people that choose to crop and dock? You obviously think it is me but im not the one coming into a thread repeating the same thing twice for no other reason then to get a rise out of people.
EDIT* Simon the part about getting a rise out of people is not aimed at you, you offered helpful info. (just dont want you misunderstanding me)

Some people flood the board with posts for the sake of posting, and I agree that that gets annoying. But it doesn't seem that that was Roger's intentions, rather a genuine concern for the dogs. Someone that was concidering cropping asked; "is it worth it?" To someone making that decision, Roger's posts have merit. I can understand why he'd get passionate about this subject, it's difficult to say, 'hey, to each his own', when in his opinion it amounts to mutilation. I don't think he was looking "to get a rise out of people", if he'd wanted to do that he would have resorted to sarcasm...