 Re: James working Arras Pics
[Re: Sandy Moore ]
#136185 - 04/01/2007 04:00 PM |
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Reg: 01-04-2004
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Sandy,
Arras is a very hard dog who is toy possisive and can be handler aggressive. He also had some very poor training. Combine all that with the fact he is my first dog that has had handler aggression and it was probably only a matter of time before he hurt me.
I am not sure if he ate the part he bit off or not.
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Re: James working Arras Pics
[Re: Jason Sidener ]
#136192 - 04/01/2007 04:52 PM |
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Reg: 01-21-2007
Posts: 178
Loc: Northwest Ohio
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....... He also had some very poor training......
I am not sure if he ate the part he bit off or not.
Poor training? Do you mean prior to being imported?
I'm even more impressed if you had to overcome somebody else's training errors.
As for the missing finger.....you may be the most devoted advocate for RAW feeding I've met. 
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Re: James working Arras Pics
[Re: James H. Larkey ]
#136198 - 04/01/2007 05:46 PM |
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Reg: 01-04-2004
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Loc: Central IL
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Poor training? Do you mean prior to being imported?
Yes.
Did you notice his ear? If you didn't Here is a picture of it. There is an old school method to getting a dog to out by pinching the ear. Since Arras can take level 10 corrections on a prong and still not "out" I doubt pinching his ear made him out so I am told they used pliers to pinch his ear which then broke the cartilage in his ear.
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Re: James working Arras Pics
[Re: James H. Larkey ]
#136202 - 04/01/2007 07:31 PM |
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Reg: 07-11-2002
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Loc: North Florida (Live Oak area)
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Did anyone warn this guy about the Fetz's bloodline and it's propensity NOT TO SLEEP.
Princess Weasel in almost 2 and I really don't think I have ever caught her asleep. Seriously. And when you think she is asleep she will crank her head around ala Linda Blair to look at you. Really creepy.
And don't look for the off switch. THERE ISN'T ONE!!!!!!!!!
But life is never boring.
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Re: James working Arras Pics
[Re: Betty Waldron ]
#136205 - 04/01/2007 07:55 PM |
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Loc: South Dakota, USA
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And when you think she is asleep she will crank her head around ala Linda Blair to look at you. Really creepy.
James,
It sounds like your pups head will spin at times.....YAY!!
Dogs like that are so much fun. 
Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter |
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Re: James working Arras Pics
[Re: James H. Larkey ]
#136211 - 04/01/2007 09:01 PM |
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I got a private email asking me to remove this thread from the board. I wont identify the member but there was concern that this thread would somehow play into breed bans.
I wrote back and agreed to disagree and the thread stays. Here is a copy of my answer:
Sorry I have to disagree with you. This was a training accident not one single thing to do with breed specific dog attacks.
The point your missing is this is not a pet forum. It’s for working dogs and training dogs in protection work, whether its for law enforcement, personal protection, Schutzhund or one ot the ring sports is dangerous work and when people make mistakes they can get badly hurt.
To stick ones head in the sand and ignore the fact that this is dangerous is misleading
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 Re: James working Arras Pics
[Re: Ed Frawley ]
#136213 - 04/01/2007 09:45 PM |
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Reg: 01-25-2003
Posts: 5983
Loc: Idaho
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Well said, Ed.
When we train the dogs that are really worth training we accept some risks. We attempt to minimize them by playing it as safe as possible, but practicing under real world conditions entails some risk, and sometimes it goes bad.
That's why professional dog trainers get paid.
If you can not accept those risks, there are other dog related fields or sports that have a much higher safety factor that those people can participate in.
Just as side note,I've had far more poorly trained pet dogs with crappy genetics try and bite me during home obedience training ( usually as a last resort before euthanasia since the owners let the problem get so out of hand  ) than during Police Canine or PPD training of hard core dogs.
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Re: James working Arras Pics
[Re: Will Rambeau ]
#136217 - 04/01/2007 10:22 PM |
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Reg: 01-23-2006
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Loc: Cali & Wash State
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I honestly think everyone who wants to do any of our sports or handle a protection trained dog should be required to wear the sleeve for a grip at least once. Now obviously you must be careful what dog you use (no Fetz or Arras). People can watch dogs work all day, but really they have no clue until they actually put on some scratch pants and a sleeve. It is something you will never forget. First time I did I swear the eyes of the sweet dog I had been petting only moments before turned red. Handlers need to do this in order to get a little bit of a clue as to what the helpers are doing.
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Re: James working Arras Pics
[Re: susan tuck ]
#136222 - 04/01/2007 11:18 PM |
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Reg: 01-21-2007
Posts: 178
Loc: Northwest Ohio
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You are absolutely right Susan. A friend of mine wanted to take a bite from a rottie I work once a week.
When he took the bite, he completely locked up with fear. He couldn't hold still, so the dog wouldn't out. He had a full bite jacket on so he couldn't slip it. I had to step in with another sleeve and redirect the bite because he was ready to pass out from exhaustion. The rottie only had him for less than one minute.
The combination of fear, adrenaline rush, and physical exertion left him catching his breath for the next two hours, his hands were shaking, his legs felt like rubber.....and he is in excellent physical shape.
Until you wear a sleeve with a serious dog on the other end, you just do not realize the danger involved.
Working a dominant handler aggressive dog in obedience can be more dangerous than decoying for that same dog.
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Re: James working Arras Pics
[Re: Jason Sidener ]
#136232 - 04/02/2007 08:37 AM |
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Reg: 07-25-2006
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Loc: AZ
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Jason, what with the previous poor training and the pliers (???) used on his ear, it's no wonder Arras can be handler aggressive. That doesn't surprise me. Like James, I'm impressed that you would take on this dog initially. Good for him though, I'm sure he's with a much better man.
I'm amazed that someone would be concerned that the GSD would be banned. (????) It's not even worth considering. Good grief! I won't say more although I want to.
Susan brought up something I've been meaning to ask for a long time. Her mention of her decoying for a dog is the 2nd time I've heard of a woman decoying. Personally, I can't understand ever using a woman as a decoy, I think it's the wrong thing to do...but would enjoy hearing what trainers think about it (including you Susan, please, why did you do it and what are your thoughts about a woman decoying?).
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