I use marker trainer all the time, but haven't tried clickers yet.

This might be a good place to insert a plug for one of the best training books I've read:

http://leerburg.com/928.htm

 Quote: old earth dog bob scott

I would also add that I retrained my 10yr old JRT using marker training and he's a whole new dog.

JRT.....with or with out a pencil neck?

I went to a trainer who was phenomenal and does not use physical corrections. As a matter of fact her book is sold on this site. I think people sometimes confuse no physical corrections with being permissive which she absolutely never is. Probably why she is as successful as she is but I also know that would not work for everyone, including me, I feel a well placed correction gets my point across quickly. I also know if I found her before my dog hit adolescense he might not have been in need of as many corrections because I would not have allowed the bad habits to develop. BTW I taught "Leave it" with the clicker under her tutorlage.....WORKED LIKE A CHARM!

I did mention pencil neck early in the post so has this thread really been hijacked

No pencil neck on my JRT. Just a hard head!
As with any training method, there are some that are good at it and some that aren't. Few are really good at any training.
There are doubters with the purely positive methods. The comments are many;
"Any dog will follow you around if you have food in your hand".
Well, any dog will follow you around if it thinks it's gonna get corrected. Both require skilled training to get the dog to understand what you want. You have to leave the food just as you have to leave the pinch/e-collars on the sideline during competition. My preference is for a dog that WANTS to do what you say because it's beem programed/imprinted/trained to enjoy it.
Same with bite work. I want to build the dog's skills before I put it in a fight on the trial field. Build the dogs skills and confidence. IF the dog has the right stuff, the power or fight will come
I'm relatively new to this sport but in my few yrs of exposure to schutzhund I've seen way to many dogs that would bail if they knew they could get out without getting thier buts in a jam with their own handler. Granted, a lot of that is breeding, but why not let the dog know your his partner, not another sombody to avoid?!
Ed, you yourself said that you've seen things that you never would have believed before seeing them. This is the real deal! We're comming! LOL!

I might add that I've never seen a JRT that couldn't be jerked off it feet with absolutely no reaction. I've seen hundreds at a time at terrier trials.
Convince a terrier (insert any dog) that it's having a good time and they'll do anything for you.

 Quote: steven lepic

 Quote:

If your dog is clicker savvy you can teach this very easily, I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't tried it myself! All my dogs learned this within several minutes, for some reason it makes sense to them. I have EXTREMELY food driven dogs too.

This is true. The "click" (or whatever cue you use) is an absoloute precision tool for communication.

This accurately represents first day performance. And yet, I DO toss food to him from a distance (which he takes), it's just that it follows the "click". It's cut and dry, black and white...just how doggies like it.

Wonderful video Steven. Thanks for posting it. I do use a verbal marker once my dog grasps the concept but I have found the clicker speeds up the initial learning.

As Ed and I were filming, we we saying what a great way this would be to train food refusal. Thanks for illustrating this so well.

To keep this on topic, my young Malinois Dante was a pencil neck until a week or so ago... funny growth spurts he is going through right now!

 Quote:

...clicker speeds up the initial learning.

Really...

Maybe I'll just bust it out then.

I asked my client what she meant by pencil neck and this is what she said,

"It’s just a slang term for a long, skinny neck. Her head is big enough so that the collar wouldn’t slide over it, but her neck is so long and skinny that I worried about using a collar – she’s a very determined little dog sometimes (all Jack Russells are) and has quite a pull for being so small."

So I think Howard was right in saying that she doesn't want to "hurt" her dog.... We'll see how this one goes. I am planning on bring her a few different collars that we can choose from. Including the evil prong!

Vanessa

The prong would probably be the perfect choice. Looking up JRT specific medical problems, it seems they are susceptible to Wobblers. Wobblers is caused by injury or weakness in the neck vertebrae, so she's probably doing a good thing by not allowing the dog to yank on a regular collar.