I know all of that breeds can be good guard dogs if train properly!

But I also want a dog who will be intelligent,fast learn,who will go for a ball over and over,good prey drives(like I said,if is it possible close to malinois)...does all of that breeds have that abilities(all equally)?
I don´t have enough experience so I ask you for opinion and recommendation which breed and why?

Thank You,Vedran

If you want intelligence and a fast learner, with high prey drive...none of the alternative breeds will really be the ticket - although a good working lines Rottie will come the closest to what it sounds like you're looking for.

A GSD or Mal is still the best overall choice for your requirements, but with a working lines Rottie, you can get a boat load of dog with strong working potential.
And a Rottie has a heart as big as a truck, I handled them for years and I still have a soft spot in my heart for'em.

Good luck however you choose!

Will thank You for the answer...that is answer like I was expecting.

Then I will rather take GSD from slovakian or czech bloodline(Jinopo,Eurosport....I think they are the best for czech and slovakian bloodline?),their GSDs are little bit bigger....similar to rotties.

Rottweiler....OUT,gsd and mal IN

Has it any diffrences beetwen malinois and german shepherds(working line) in character?-I was searching on the forum but I didn´t find anything!
I like malinois(but only bigger one(I think big ones are from knpv lines) and german shepherds same,so which is better for YOu and why?

I want to hear just Your opinion(beacuse I know that almost all of You have different opinions),which kennel breeding best dogs(german shepherds or malinois,what You recommend me) for personal protection and/or IPO(I don´t know if forum rules approve to put kennel names so you can send me PM...some of You allready answer me,thank You)-with highest drives....?

Sorry for my indecision!thank You for You all of Your suggestions!

Vedran

After many calls,e-mails,reading,visit to some people who has that breeds I reduce my choice on 3 breeds:
Cane corso(I can get 100% italian working and show blodline,I was in visit to some owners who has dogs like that and I´m amazing,I never saw dog who is that calm but protective at the same moment-from dogs and people....that dog when we were in the house was all time on the top of the sofa and looking around if all is OK and when we were going out he just can stop runing after ball,jumping really high,and I cannot belived how fast are that dogs)

Rottweiler

German shepherd(from czech line-Jinopo,Eurosport is the best kennel in my opinion...as Jiri was saying to me,his dogs are as big-tall as rottweilers(65-68 cm and 40-46 kg),and I think that working czech GSDs have much more drives then rottwilers).

But also,when I was talking to some proffesional trainers(who has all of working breeds-rottweilers,german shepherds,malinois,dobermann and some cane corsos) they told to me that mollosers(in my case cane corso and rottweiler)are much better for my needs,both of that breeds(cane corso and rottweiler) can get IPO and are maybe the best for personal protection,they are crazy for balls and tugs (IF I CHOOSE RIGHT PUPPY)and they are in the same time calm but extremly protective,more then any GSD.
He said to me that rottweiler and cane corso has much stronger defense drive than GSD and really enough prey drive for my need.

I just want to hear Your opinion,if You can say to me anything which is yet not said?

Thank You,vedran

 Quote:

Cane corso(I can get 100% italian working and show blodline,I was in visit to some owners who has dogs like that and I´m amazing,I never saw dog who is that calm but protective at the same moment-from dogs and people....

So is it Working line or Show line? I am confused when you say "100% working and show line"... if it is working AND show line, then it is not 100% of anything?

 Quote:

that dog when we were in the house was all time on the top of the sofa and looking around if all is OK and when we were going out he just can stop runing after ball,jumping really high,and I cannot belived how fast are that dogs)

So the dog was sharp and defensive not trusting you to be there?

 Quote:

and they are in the same time calm but extremly protective,more then any GSD.
He said to me that rottweiler and cane corso has much stronger defense drive than GSD and really enough prey drive for my need.

And why do you think "defense" is a good thing? Defense stems from fear/self preservation. The dog looks meaner, but it has little to do with confidence.

I am sure there are good mollosser breeds, but I always hear the same bulls*it from the people who own them. I dont like dogs that are overly defensive. These are the dogs that will run away if someone calls their bluff. The only advantage you have is hoping that people aren't stupid enough to call the dogs bluff. They are excellent deterent dogs, but you better be damn sure you get the right dog if you want a good one. I would NOT buy a puppy if I wanted to be sure of the dog I got. The problem is, the people who own the good ones will not sell them. On top of that, everyone thinks their dog is the greatest, and people who are new to working dogs are very easily impressed by defensive threat displays. But it is just that, a display. My showline german shepherd is the dog I take with me when I want protection. He won't bite anyone, but he looks really mean when he barks and he is defensive, so he will bark quickly when I give a command. But he is just a display, someone could easily make him run away by kicking him.

I have worked a bunch of these mollosser breeds, they are OK, but they always try to avoid the fight, bite the sleeve in the hand, come off the bite etc. Maybe they were not good examples of the breed, but they are the COMMON examples.

As for Jinopo/Czech dogs etc. Yes, Czech GSD's are good. But so are west german working lines and the "DDR" lines. Then, there are also crap Czech GSD's, crap WG lines and crap "DDR" lines. If you know what you are looking for, you will get an amazing dog out of any of these lines, but you cannot go on what a breeder tells you, they will always talk up their dogs.

I met a breeder recently that spent 30 minutes telling me how amazing his dog was. In fact, I was so convinced by what he was saying that I was about to tell him I wanted a puppy from his next breeding. Then, I saw his dog work. I wanted to cry, the dog sucked. The guy was a very good salesman. But he was just that, a salesman.

 Quote: Vedran Petek

they are in the same time calm but extremly protective,more then any GSD.

Wtf? Please do yourself a favor and listen to Mike and Will and just about anybody here that has working dogs. They know their s**t!

There IS a reason why police and military use GSD's and Mals. Because they can do the job.

As far as a Mal being able to take down a big guy, how about a 350 lb man, as shown on this video of a police K9 named Leon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYErjneazQw
Sadly, Leon was killed 7 months later, hit by a car while chasing a suspect. http://www.azk9memorial.net/k9_pages/leon_mesak9unit.asp

 Quote:

So is it Working line or Show line? I am confused when you say "100% working and show line"... if it is working AND show line, then it is not 100% of anything?

I was thinking that it is 100% italian bloodline,someone use them as guard dogs on farm,someone goes for IPO with them and some goes on shows with them.

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So the dog was sharp and defensive not trusting you to be there?

Yes,dog was sharp and defensive,but don´t bark almost at all,just looking around and in the beginning when I came too close to his place he was growling(very quiet just to tell me that I´m too close).


OK,I unerstand,You recommend me german shepherd for work and personal protection,but can You just little more explaine me why....most people describe me rottweiler(or some other molloser breed) as dog who is extremly brave,protective of his master and property(who will die for his owner),and I think when rottweiler doing protection of his owner at real that almost noone can stop him,again,in real situations I think he will not run away?

But then again,when I listening You and reading this forum,some texts....I like german shepherds,their prey drive,intelligent etc.,but I also like mollosers,their protectiv instinct,loyalty?

As I said can You just explaine me...do You think that german shepherd is really better in real situations,has more defense drives,confidence,is more loyal,brave....why are You don´t like molloser breeds?
I think if I choose good puppy(or average)from parents and ancestors who have IPO or other working exams,and if I pick the right puppy,with proper training he should has enough prey drive for IPO-maybe not as strong as GSD or mal,but again....?


And what is Your opinions(and from other members),which bloodline/kennel....is the best,has best drives...I like czech dogs beacuse they are little biggers but at the same time agile,fast....I was reading some experiences and read that czech dogs have really lot of drives(fight,prey...),that they are really intelligente,fast learners,good in real yituations(of course,czech breeders said to me that their dogs are the only true GSDs,has the best drives etc.)?


Thank You alot for suggesting,I really apreciate that when someone experience like You(or everyone)help me with my choice...I hope You understand me...I like mollosers-their streng,calm(cane corso and rottweilers),their protective character etc. but again I want a dog who is intelligent(maybe not as GSD but intelligent),has enough prey and ball drives(he doesn´t need to hang on the ball all day but I want that dog likes ball and tugs very much,aporting....)!

Vedran

While I was answering two new answers!

OK,ok I understand,I will go with GSD....just don´t know with which bloodline/kennel...I was looking at Ven tiekerhook but they have some inbreedings,variation in quality....then I was looking at czech kennels(Jinopo and Eurosport,I was reading here most about them when we were talking about czech and DDR GSDs),they seems to have some really good dogs(and working successes)?