Quote: cameron feathers

... Ingestion, yes. That is the primary route of infection. But it is much easier to GET salmonella than I used to understand... After talking to Ed about how he got it, I started changing my clean up practices, and I also started looking for how long the bacteria can survive ( had always thought it was a few days, maybe a week or so) This is one of the clearer answers that I found on this: part of a study done by the California Zoological Supply on salmonella.
( http://www.calzoo.com/html/salmonella.html )
Most of the study is about reptile care, but this still applies to those of us who feed raw and handle poultry:

"Chicken, eggs and meat are the highest source for salmonella transmission. This means raw cookie dough could be a hazard, DON'T EAT IT. The salmonella bacteria can also be transmitted to humans by cattle, pigs, dogs, cats, flies, ducks & their eggs, rats, mice, hamsters, rabbits, and cockroaches. Incubation occurs between 7 - 30 hours. On the average it takes 10 - 24 hours. The salmonella bacteria can also survive from weeks to years on surfaces exposed to the salmonella bacteria." ... and further on in the study: ... "To illustrate how easy the salmonella bacteria is transmitted and how long it survives, here are two actual cases. CASE #1. A man kept a large snake as a pet. Understandably, he had a large enclosure for it. To make cleaning easier for himself, he would climb into the enclosure. His snake carried the salmonella bacteria. The man picked up the bacteria on his shoes. When he was done cleaning, he transmitted it to the carpeting where his young daughter often crawled. CASE #2. A man once owned a monitor lizard, which he eventually sold. The lizard's enclosure remained untouched for a few months. In time, he cleaned the enclosure. The soiled enclosure still contained viable salmonella bacteria! All the salmonella bacteria needs is slight physical contact to be transmitted. Be careful while preparing chicken, eggs or meat and when handling animals."... Just something to keep in mind when handling the stuff, because an uncleaned floor or crate CAN lead to infection if the bacteria is present.

So wash your hands and don't eat raw food that touched salmonella-vulnerable foods and surfaces.

And I guess don't lick the snake ....

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

And I guess don't lick the snake ....

HAHA!:laugh::laugh:

I laughed so hard I could almost be heard outside my bubble.:laugh:

I think really if salmonella was THAT easy to catch, we would all be sick all the time. It is everywhere, including on shopping carts, doors, our purses (yes, we sit them everywhere, including filthy floors). Have you ever watched one of those shows where they test common surfaces? Usually it shows up on the clean counter tops and in our sponges and dish towels too. Along with E-coli. I don't worry about it. I rarely clean my dogs crates. Only if they are goopy. I wash my hands often, and clean up the counters after food prep. (but I always prep the dog food on a large plastic cutting board for dog food only, and wash it in the dishwasher). No worries, never sick.

I think all the anti bacterial stuff is not the way to go, and will cause major issues down the road...

 Quote: Shody Lytle

I wash my hands often, and clean up the counters after food prep. (but I always prep the dog food on a large plastic cutting board for dog food only, and wash it in the dishwasher). No worries, never sick.

I think all the anti bacterial stuff is not the way to go, and will cause major issues down the road...

Pretty much my take, too.

Hot water, soap, clean hands.... good stuff.

Raw feeding or not raw feeding .....

Cameron, yes, I read Ed's story a long time ago. Very interesting read, LOL. Ingest salmonella and get salmonella poisoning... isn't that what I said?

I believe I also pointed out the children crawling around sticking their hands into their mouths issue. Again, ingestion.

Washing hands after handling any raw meat, not cross-contaminating any human foods or food preparation items, washing hands before preparing food for humans and so on. Exactly what I said.

If I touch raw meat, I don't touch ANYTHING ELSE until I wash my hands. This includes the fridge door, door handles, certainly nothing that would be used to prepare human food. I'm also very careful about how the fridge is set up; raw vegetables and fruits are always placed on the top trays above the meat trays (which are at the very bottom) so that there's no chance of any meat juices dripping down and contaminating other foods.

I assume that these are completely obvious precautions that everyone follows. However some of the arguments I hear from anti-raw people (vets are the worst) are so outstandingly ridiculous that I feel the need to be the voice of reason at times.
Obviously you are not in this category so my comments weren't directed at you Cameron, just at an uninformed person who might read your statement, over-react and decide to never feed meat to their dog

After talking to what probably by now amounts to over 100 dog owners around here about proper feeding, the "OMG SALMONELLA!!" reaction is something I'm used to. I'd hate to see people forego feeding raw to their dogs because of unfounded fears. Salmonella can be very serious yes, especially in children, but knowing how it's transmitted allows people to take the necessary precautions without becoming phobic over the issue.

Now the crate bottom gets washed out every now and again - whenever I have nothing better to do. I will wipe it down if there's any meat juice left in it, but so far my pup does a great job of licking it clean. Yes there's salmonella still living there, but no one in my family crawls around on the floor and sticks their hands in their mouths so we've never had a single issue here.

As far as dirt being a danger to dogs... LOL!
On toxic, polluted and contaminated areas, sure, but come on. If the ground you're living on is so badly polluted your dogs are going to get the toxins into their systems no matter where you feed.
That's kind of pushing it isn't it? Dogs are going to get dirt in their mouths from day to day living no matter what or where the hell you feed them.
Well unless you restrict them to concrete for all walks, all activities involving fetching balls and such, bathe them every single time they go out in the yard before they get a chance to lick themselves... oh and gotta keep their noses off the ground too at all times; mine get more dirt stuck on their noses from sniffing & digging around on walks than they ever do on their food.


Haha, that's a good one though; I'll have to pass it on to my vets. They already use the salmonella arguments to scare people but maybe if they added the dangers of dirt they could prevent more people from switching their dogs to raw


Yes, I'm laughing about your dirt comment, but fully agree with you about taking whatever precautions are necessary for each family as far as salmonella.

I personally would never eat raw or undercooked chicken, but I do eat a lot of raw eggs. It's an ingredient that's traditionally been part of some Japanese dishes (sukiyaki for ex) and I've been eating this way since I was a small child - as have many, many generations in my family before me.

Even now there are times where I may average 3-4 raw eggs a week in my diet and I've never been sick. Not once. These are supermarket eggs too; don't wash them or soak them in chlorine or irradiate them either

I've even heard many "health professionals" warn people against eating raw fish. Hah, me giving up sashimi & sushi? Yeah, that's going to happen. Been eating large quantities of raw fish since I could chew and have yet to be sick because of it... NOT ONCE.
I've learned long ago to use a little common sense and not just swallow whatever's currently being shoved down out throats by doctors, vets and health authorities

If people don't feel comfortable eating or feeding something, that's absolutely fine, no one's forcing you. But to lecture those who do (without issue I might add) gets irritating after a while.

Edit:

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Pretty much my take, too.

Hot water, soap, clean hands.... good stuff.

Raw feeding or not raw feeding .....

Yep, that sums it up. Man, why didn't I just think to say that, would've saved me a lot of typing

You can get bad food poisoning even when there's no meat involved - bacteria are everywhere and can multiply & produce toxins in various food items if basic food safety procedures are not followed.

 Quote: yuko blum

Yes, I'm laughing about your dirt comment, but fully agree with you about taking whatever precautions are necessary for each family as far as salmonella.

I live on an island in SC, and the "dirt" is pretty much all sand. It applies to me living here because sand doesn't pass through the system as easily, it collects in the gut, and causes problems that way. But I have also heard of dogs who eat "regular" dirt in large quantities that end up having the same impaction problem. Mostly OCD cases... but it makes me wonder how much dirt a dog can actually pass, and how much collects.
A large portion of SC is sand, so I can really only speak to living here, and having to keep that in mind.

Yes, a dog obsessively consuming massive quantities of dirt vs. a dog licking a bit of dirt off a chunk of meat tossed in the yard. Exactly the same thing.

I wish you could hear yourself in some of your posts. You actually used the term "LIFE THREATENING ISSUES" when discussing dirt in the context of feeding meat outside vs. in a crate.

Now you're adapting and changing your story and the context of the discussion from what it originally was. I don't see how OCD dirt eating has ANY relevance in a raw feeding thread.

Even your salmonella concerns (some of which I shared, from your earlier posts) deviated more and more from the topic and you ended up talking about snakes, lizards, rabbits and cookie dough.

Children crawling around on a salmonella-contaminated floor is a serious issue with raw feeding and I pointed that out in my very first post.

Was the rest really necessary though?
Hopefully your comments will help protect children from serious illness and death following contact with pet rabbits and cookie dough. Who knows, maybe there are even dog owners out there who've lost their dogs to dirt-poisoning and impaction because they didn't know better and fed their dogs in the yard.
Hopefully the Sch footstep tracking folks will also stop losing their dogs due to dirt ingested on food tracks.

I don't think anyone here would argue that massive dirt/sand consumption is a healthy thing for any dog. However it's completely unrelated to the topic and frankly it's so obvious that I fail to see the need to bring it up in the first place.

That's just me though... I have a hard enough time countering all the vet & kibble company propaganda when helping people switch their dogs to raw. I don't think we need to ADD to the scary boogie-man anti-raw alerts out there.

Wow, I thought the OP's original intention was to find out how people were feeding raw food, so she could get ready for her new dog this weekend. How did it turn into this?

Ummm......are we being a bit too intense here?

 Quote: melissa hau

Ummm......are we being a bit too intense here?

Ok, maybe I went too far.

But you have to remember, this is supposed to be a discussion forum that helps educate people who are looking into a raw diet for their dogs and who, for the most part, are already under the effect of their vets' brainwashing. As a result they are reluctant and nervous enough to make the switch as it is.

To use phrases like "life threatening issues" that have NOTHING to do with raw feeding is not really educational or helpful.
If this was a thread about dogs that eat dirt for fun, I would be agreeing right along with Cameron. This also isn't a thread about all the NON RAW-FEEDING, NON DOG-RELATED ways in which a kid could pick up salmonella. Not sure how that fits in either, but it could certainly contribute even more to people's already inflated (IMO) fears about the "dangers of raw feeding & germs".

Anyway, I put a lot of effort into educating dog owners on the health benefits of raw and I've sent countless people to this website for more info on raw feeding.
That's why it bothers me when I see stuff like this, which essentially consists of health warnings about issues that have nothing to do with a raw diet but which could be misconstrued as such because of the context in which they were brought up.