Quote: anne jones

I believe that many .... think that a dog that is actually acting territorial, possesive, or resource guarding is behaving 'protectively' (of them, the owners). ...

This is such an important point, Anne. As you say, "This is a common misconception."

 Quote: will rambeau

 Quote: joy van veen

I have known of several GSDs who with no training instinctively tried to protect their owners in a crisis. "Tried" is the operative word. The attempt is enough against most humans; but for someone armed and determined, it might not be enough. (And as said above, the presence of a klarge dog is often enough deterent alone.) The instince to protect does not come with the knowledge and experience to do so effectively. And an untrained dog might take too long to realize that something more than an alert to a stranger is needed.

Protection against other animals seems to come with a degree of instinctive knowledge of how to respond.

Joy, I find your reply *amazing*.
I've been in the process of writing a book about real world protection events for four years now and I've reviewed 1400 alleged protection events ( and interviewed over 250 people now ) with a less than .5% finding of a dog actually protecting its owner.

For you to know of "several GSD's" that were involved in a protection event is more than most active Police K9 handlers would know.
How is it that you came up with these amazing numbers, may I ask?

Know OF, not personal experience. I have had more than one persinal experience of a dog acting protecting when it hadn't been taught.

The most dramatic was a GSD pup I had rescued with three broken bones and a dislocated shoulder. After the pup was healed (she was about 6 months old), I was walking with her off leash on the property of a cattleman while a guest. He had suggested our route. When we were almost to an open doublr gate in a solid fence, which his route would bring us through, she pricked her ears up. I noticed a sound I couldn't indentify and was trying to listen hard as I neared the gate. Suddely around the gate charged a mass of cattle. My pup was off to one side but I was smack in their path. The pup raced across the cattle's path and leaped up hitting my chest with her body, finishing off with a strong pucsh with her back paws. I was shoved to the side and the hooves were landing inches from my body. The pup went down under the cattle and I thought she was a goner. But once the cattle were passed and the dust cleared, she was fine.

What reason could have accounted for her action other than protectiveness? She had never seen cattle before, nor would her actions have protected herself. This was not a case of a dog exhibiting fear aggression which can be misidentrified as protectiveness. Nor being possessive. So why?

 Quote: Anne Jones

I believe that many on this forum think that a dog that is actually acting territorial, possesive, or resource guarding is behaving 'protectively' (of them, the owners). Actually in one way they are correct, the dog is acting protectively, but NOT in the way that they think. They are being protective (guarding) what they believe to be 'theirs' (territory or possession/resouce) not in the protection of the owner/handler. This is a common misconception made by many people. As I had stated above about my poodle....she was possession/resouce guarding, not protecting me or my son in the true sense of the word, although, at the time that this took place, I thought that is what she was doing. A number of years later when I learned about dogs working in 'protection work' I knew that this was not the case. A barking growling dog does not make a protection dog. It may act as a deterrent to somone ill intended, especially if the dog is on the larger size. But it is not going to protect you when push comes to shove in the real world, unless it has been trained to do protection work.

ETA... that even with training there are those that will still run in the face of real danger or threat to them.

I completely agree. But there are the few exceptions. I didn't mean barking or behaving aggressive was as being protective. An aggressive behaving dog is often an insecure dog. To really know the dog is being protective relies on its actions, not its behaviors; if that makes sense.

Thanks Patricia now I too can be paranoid . To be honest with you I never thought about it. I tend to be cordial but distant with strangers. I have no problem with giving his name; Thor is super rude and ignores people he doesn't know even if they call his name.

My gut instinct is pretty good and I don't find myself in situations I'm uncomfortable in frequently and when I do I generally get the feeling about the location prior to running into anyone and exit stage right.

As far as protecting me I don't see it happening. Plus it would take away all the fun of me acting insane and talking to myself and shrieking obscenities at passers by. All joking aside acting crazy can be a deterrant if you ever find yourself in a threatening situation. It puts an attacker off guard which is often enough to remove you as a victim.

Quote: Joy Van Veen:" The most dramatic was a GSD pup I had rescued with three broken bones and a dislocated shoulder. After the pup was healed (she was about 6 months old), I was walking with her off leash on the property of a cattleman while a guest. He had suggested our route. When we were almost to an open doublr gate in a solid fence, which his route would bring us through, she pricked her ears up. I noticed a sound I couldn't indentify and was trying to listen hard as I neared the gate. Suddely around the gate charged a mass of cattle. My pup was off to one side but I was smack in their path. The pup raced across the cattle's path and leaped up hitting my chest with her body, finishing off with a strong pucsh with her back paws. I was shoved to the side and the hooves were landing inches from my body. The pup went down under the cattle and I thought she was a goner. But once the cattle were passed and the dust cleared, she was fine.

What reason could have accounted for her action other than protectiveness? She had never seen cattle before, nor would her actions have protected herself. This was not a case of a dog exhibiting fear aggression which can be misidentrified as protectiveness. Nor being possessive. So why? "

I can tell you about my horse protecting me out in the field from another horse that was charging & going to attack me (not a stampede).

This was one mean animal. My horse protected me coming from another direction in the field & charging that horse. I also had a collie that intercepted an attack on me from another dog. BUT....these are all dogs or horses protecting us from another animal....NOT A HUMAN aggressor. Whole different thing. Dogs do not normally attack humans attacking their owner without training & certainly will many will most likely not stay in the fight if it is turned on them & gets ugly. I am sure Will and others with PPD experience will agree with this.
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Lassie, Lassie, Lassie come home........we can't find Timmy.

My dog KC protected me from a dangerous bunny in the backyard when he was only a 1 yr old! Even ate it to make sure it didn't get to me, teeny little thing but most likley a mean a$$ bunny!!! Close call but we made it!

 Quote:

Know OF, not personal experience. I have had more than one persinal experience of a dog acting protecting when it hadn't been taught.

The most dramatic was a GSD pup I had rescued with three broken bones and a dislocated shoulder. After the pup was healed (she was about 6 months old), I was walking with her off leash on the property of a cattleman while a guest. He had suggested our route. When we were almost to an open doublr gate in a solid fence, which his route would bring us through, she pricked her ears up. I noticed a sound I couldn't indentify and was trying to listen hard as I neared the gate. Suddely around the gate charged a mass of cattle. My pup was off to one side but I was smack in their path. The pup raced across the cattle's path and leaped up hitting my chest with her body, finishing off with a strong pucsh with her back paws. I was shoved to the side and the hooves were landing inches from my body. The pup went down under the cattle and I thought she was a goner. But once the cattle were passed and the dust cleared, she was fine.

What reason could have accounted for her action other than protectiveness? She had never seen cattle before, nor would her actions have protected herself. This was not a case of a dog exhibiting fear aggression which can be misidentrified as protectiveness. Nor being possessive. So why?

Kinda like Moe swinging at Curly but hitting Larry. He was in the way.

My dog regularly protects me from squirrels Which brings up the possibility of prey drive occasionally being misinterpreted as protectiveness:

My dog's sire was in the back yard doing his thing, when the meter guy came to read the meter. The meter guy didn't see Dominic until he was fairly close to him. The poor meter guy's surprise caused him to turn around and run for the gate, inciting Dom to chase and subsequently take out the seat of the guy's pants and somehow get one of his shoes (though fortunately he was good natured about it and not hurt!)

The meter guy (not a dog person) thought we had a fabulous guard dog, but if he had just said 'nice doggie' and gone about his business instead of running away, Dominic probably would have barked a little and then sucked up for attention.

Could as easily be misinterpreted as 'protective' behaviour as the usual resource gaurding, but in reality it was clearly just Dominic's prey drive being triggered.

My 6mo old pup saved me just today Al. Snatched that darn pretzel I was gonna choke to death on.