guys!!

our problem has gotten better. the stool is no longer green anymore! i m pretty sure it s after Dolthene (a dewormer with a very high spectrum) for more follow link at the bottom and read section 5.1.

thanks barbara for the search on coprophagia but check this out:

 Quote: Betty Landercasp

If the dog has parasites, or giardia etc. and the stools are eaten the dog constantly re-infects despite medication.

 Quote: Betty Landercasp

If the dog has parasites, or giardia etc. and the stools are eaten the dog constantly re-infects despite medication.

doesnt giardia cause green loose stools? (or maybe another worm)?

Then wouldnt you guys think that even though the kennel dewormed him, the fact that he then continued eating his stool didnt make matters better (he might have been doing it all along there..)
and that s what caused the green stool to show up ?

- can i at least i can rule out the Pancreatic enzyme deficiency now because of the poop turning brown again on the dewormer?

- now back to the part of making the BMs firmer! m going to start the chicken/rice/yogurt diet.
m gving him royal canin now still but in small portions (m giving him 1/3 cup every 4 hours so 1 1/3 cup a day – half the suggested portion)
I didnt wanna discontinue till i got a stool sample ready...
1. do you think i still need to submit one?
2. do you think i should wait till next monday to see if he gets better by then or switch him directly to chicken?

you guys are the best!
thanks a lot for the active comments and replies. that s how a forum should be! it shows how passionate you guys are about dogs and how much you care
thanks again!

this 1st experience with the community is getting better and better..


http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:3S1VXmR90kIJ:www.ms.public.lu/fr/activites/pharmacie-medicament/mise-marche-medic-veterin/rcp/d/dolthene-susp.pdf+dolthene&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiCqs8vOUFaG-mBJREqZ6G0S9IkHiLzHEOfXMkNXhbhMrXfMe4I-4PPpC_lGdPcnP0JS78qxvFGdFTglV_aMzvybbM_YQzeyWApQOkwVgAHiCFS25gXt4sj3dQX65rPWz0TH8Qi&sig=AHIEtbTUoTmMaywL7OvZn8P5Y2X8WAeT-Q

Updates:

Ok. Cindy suggested i stop royal canin altogether. i might have found Ëagle Pack in my region - one of the suggested all-natural kibble list. m not sure if it s holistic select or not.
The goal then is to get his stools better and switch him to eagle pack for now while i learn how a raw diet works. (i ve ordered both suggested books).

Concerns:
- both vets are stressing on giving him flagyl and lomotil in parallel, i thought i d rely on the food 1st without giving him meds.. what do you think? maybe i should give them within 3-4 days if there s no progress..
- when i gave him Dolthene dewormer (for 3 days), the guy at the kennel insisted i give him only 10units (usually 1unit per kg) and karly weighs 16.5 (so 16.5 units).. maybe the loose stools are a result of giving him less than the necessary dose. vet s like 2/3 of the dose is fine... i m still not so sure ..
- also one of the vets is suggesting i give him slightly boiled groud beef instead of the rice and chicken along with puppy vitamin tabs, with the flagyl and lomotil, he thinks that there s a possibility of him not handling the chicken well.
isnt meat alone too rich for his stomach to digest now?

i get the importance of doing thorough research and taking different opinions but i m completely lost now.
my plan of action still remains hard boiled rice with a bit of chicken for 2 day, then adding yogurt and a bit more chicken to the mix for 3 days if things go well.
then if he doesnt progress on the chix/rice, add yogurt and start flagyl & lomotil for 5days.
does that make sense?

lol i feel like a mix of sherlock holmes and doctor house
having a dog can make you crazy!!!! or am i still not used to the usual tiny problems? do u ever get used to it?

Parasites can cause green stool (hypermotility) and poor growth and diarrhea, the problems your pup has.
If he was mine, I'd probably give him the dewormer as recommended by my small animal vet (the 2/3rds dose) and the Flagyl for the Giardia, it also treats other GI conditions.
I never had any luck controlling parasites with diet alone. (Also a disclaimer, I never did much pet animal medicine)
I'd find some bland type diet, bagged or cooked hamburger or chicken/ rice, whatever, and stick with it a week, small guantities frequently. Give the bowel a chance to heal, then play around with your raw foods.

 Quote: betty landercasp

Parasites can cause green stool (hypermotility) and poor growth and diarrhea, the problems your pup has. ... If he was mine, I'd probably give him the dewormer as recommended by my small animal vet (the 2/3rds dose) and the Flagyl for the Giardia, it also treats other GI conditions. ... I never had any luck controlling parasites with diet alone. .... I'd find some bland type diet, bagged or cooked hamburger or chicken/ rice, whatever, and stick with it a week, small guantities frequently. Give the bowel a chance to heal ....

Ditto, big ditto.

Parasites can't be controlled with diet; and the soothing firming diet mentioned and detailed here is nothing more than a way (a good way) to help the inflamed gut.

"Vet gave him a Giardia medication and flagyl." And he is still on it? (Sorry, got confused trying to catch up with the thread.) This was asked back on page 1 or 2 or so but I can't tell if he is on the meds or not.

"doesnt giardia cause green loose stools?" Yes.

" both vets are stressing on giving him flagyl and lomotil in parallel, i thought i d rely on the food 1st without giving him meds.. what do you think? maybe i should give them within 3-4 days if there s no progress." Food can't manage parasites.

"my plan of action still remains hard boiled rice with a bit of chicken for 2 day, then adding yogurt and a bit more chicken to the mix for 3 days if things go well ...." SOFT overcooked rice and a bit of poached white-meat skinless chicken, which in less rich than the ground beef, is my diarrhea-food preference.

However, as mentioned, the food is merely an aid in de-stressing the gut. Parasite infestation (including Giargia), is not a food-treatment condition.

Please don't confuse the advice (all good, IMO) about getting off RC food, getting rid of olive oil in the diet of a pup with diarrhea, starting a soothing binding diet, etc., with treating parasites. Many folks mentioned this, but then the thread maybe got a little sidetracked.




Please post back and let me know if this is confusing or jumbled. (It's early here. )

Going back, I saw "big portions."

Just wanted to highlight this part of Betty's post:

"I'd find some bland type diet, bagged or cooked hamburger or chicken/ rice, whatever, and stick with it a week, small guantities frequently."

(Big portions are a stressor on the gut.)


eta
Please keep us posted. I know how frustrating and awful this is.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (03/10/2010 12:01 PM)
Edit reason: eta

i got it! thanks!
""Vet gave him a Giardia medication and flagyl." And he is still on it? (Sorry, got confused trying to catch up with the thread.) This was asked back on page 1 or 2 or so but I can't tell if he is on the meds or not."
he already took flagyl and a giardia pill 2 weeks ago that didnt help at all. stools were still green and very mushy/bit watery.

it wasnt till he took the Dolthene deworming med that stools became browish but they re still mushy, kinda like a Mcdonalds sundae. (less mushy than before - they take shape but go flat on the foor).
vet wants me to give him Flagyl AGAIN and lomotil (med that s supposed to stop his diarrhia, but i want to consider that dolthene did its job and now it s about only soothing the tummy with a bland diet.

but i m gonna follow your advice guys and start the flagyl directly and lomotil for 5 days (is that necessary?! anyone knows about it?)and consider that parasites were not all annihilated with dolthene). started with 3 small rice and tiny bit of chicken meals today. gonna add 2 tablespoons of yogurt tomorrow to compensate the flagyl and up the chicken intake. gonna do that for around a week – and not switch to meat since it s too rich for his tummy.
hope all will be fine by then.

i just wanna see pretty shaped brown stools! i ve been dreaming about them for a month now!! that s all i look for when i m walking him. (he goes on command now after 3 weeks )
people stare at me when they see me bending down to admire what tiny little Karly s gonna poop out! everyone in the neighborhood thinks i m nuts! (by the way, people dont have the habit of cleaning behind their dog here so they dont get it when i pull out a plastic bag and start picking, NAY! scraping out the poop!) lol

side question:
how can i post his picture as a signature? i ve been dying to show him to you

 Quote: connie sutherland

Going back, I saw "big portions."
Just wanted to highlight this part of Betty's post:
(Big portions are a stressor on the gut.)

i m giving him about 1/3 to 1/2 cup of rice (with rice water) and just enough chicken (tiny tiny bit) so he wants to lick the bowl clean. 4x a day: 8am, 2pm, 6pm, 9:30pm

i feel it s nothing!! tomorrow i m gonna up the intake just a bit maybe stick to 1/2 rice but add some chicken and yogurt.
( i got him some vitatabs to keep him healthy )

WHAT S THE PORTION I M AIMING FOR?

he s really skinny (you can feel all the ribs like a washboard and his tummy is tucked in bigtime! i feel so bad for the tiny pup. his brother is MASSIVE now.
karly s 16.5 kgs today at 19weeks old. he s back at where he was exactly one month ago after losing 1.5 kgs during this crazy frustating month!

m glad i talked to all these vets and kennel guy and you guys (you were the best and took a million opinions to educate myself about this! i dont get pple who simply call up the vet and follow what he says to the letter! @#!^&#&($@^$#

if i would ve done that, karly would still be extremely sick!

 Quote: Jessica Pedicord

I went through the same thing with my pup a few months ago. We narrowed it down to overfeeding. I fasted him for a day and then started with very small portions at a time- like 1/4 cup of food at a time. As long as his poop was good, I slowly increased the portions.

wait, you mean i keep on giving him these tiny portions till stool becomes solid!? or just getting better? i really dont want to starve him, he s already extremely under weight