In my last message i wrote that if you hit the knee it would diasble the dog. I meant to say that if you hit the elbow. Read Geoff's post above mine. It was very informative.

As usual, this has been another rewarding thread for me. Although guns and knives are not an option for me, pepper spray and a staff are. I doubt, however, if I could swing an uncooperative hundred pound dog against a telephone pole more than a couple of times (cough cough), Even more useful for me is the knowledge I've been acquiring from Ed's tapes, this board and other sources about dogs and their drives. The rottie encounter I had 12 or so years ago did intimidate me, although I recognized even then that my lab was the prey target, and the circling rottie was begging my lab to run so he could be caught. And my lab did cooperate with me on that occassion by not being overly stupid or brave. He let me protect him. And I know I was more lucky than smart in not doing anything to move the rottie out of prey drive into something worse. But as I wait for my American Bulldog pup (forever it seems) and my newbie entry/attempt into Schutzhund training, it gives me great comfort to know that you're all out there willing to share your knowledge and experience. Thanks to you all.

Johne wrote about the use of pepper spray,I would question this as the dog still has his intense hearing and the use of pepper could just worsen the situation.
Paul

Geoff is absolutely right about the staff, use it as if you are in for the fight of your life, you could be. Check the area you will be walking your dog, find out what other dogs are in the area and what they are like. Pay attention, watch for other dogs, rocks work good on most strays and will usually take off before they ever get close, and last, if it comes down to it NOTHING is worth your life, please don't get me wrong i love my dogs but they are more than just protection from the local creep. They also are there to alert me to the bears and ocasional big cat in my area, I live in an area where, because of the distance to a home or farm even a minor injury say to leg or face could end up being life threatening, if it comes down to me or my dog well you get the picture, do everything you can to prevent a fight by checking your area. If it means driving somewhere else to run them do it. The important thing is to have fun with your dog no matter what you do with them and you can't do that if your nervous because of stray or loose dogs.

Tamar

That incident where my dog was killed was some years ago. I listed that story as an extreme case of what happened to me. It was an eye opener. That incident shocked me into a new realization of what can happen and how fast it can happen. At the time I was a VERY inexperienced dog owner and yea, grabbing the Rottie was WAY STUPID. Here is my last point- whatever you do to protect yourself or your dog, it better be well thought out and you better be able to act very quickly - before you get into trouble.

To: Dave Trowbridge;ikor ;johne and others

I carry pepper spray, and use some of the strategies outlined here--although you can forget carrying a handgun in Santa Cruz County! (To be honest, that wouldn't be for me.I barely have the time to train my GSD.

Hi Dave the state of California is hard on fire arms, I'm surprise they let you guys have GSD or flash lights. They don't want you guys getting a upper hand on the bad guys. If you could own a gun, you could work this in your protection shceme with the dog. Backup for your backup. It is really gratifying sport, combat shooting. Yeah, I'm an Okie.

If it was me, I would warn the Rotts owner that his dog is out and showing aggression toward me. I would also take Ikor advice about starting a paper trail on this Rott. I would back the pepper spray up with a 6' walking stick or a taser, Spary him (usually they will shake their head before deciding, their next move) and then whack him with the stick, then tell him to "Go home", I bet he will stragger home after that. Now your concern will be with the owner for stopping his dog from bitting a plug out of your rump.I don't recommend flank kicking, that will only get your leg bite, slip and you find out why dogs are called canines. You are either very lucky or very good, but that was a Golden, you could have just split on him. No all dogs will bite, just playing.

Ikor
Just a few more suggestions for all "dog walkers" out there: Carry a cell phone on your walks and have it programmed to speed dial 911.

Hi Ikor, thanks your entire post was good advice. But in most cases, using a cell phone would be good after the incident is over. In seconds a powerful dog could maim or kill. I suggest taking care of the attacking dog, then calling animal control, don't contact the owner after the fact, you are only asking for a fight or a sue case. I feel a physical plan must be implemented with the cauitionary and mental preparation. See above comments to Dave.

Johne
Although guns and knives are not an option for me, pepper spray and a staff are. I doubt, however, if I could swing an uncooperative hundred pound dog against a telephone pole more than a couple of times.

Johne; You are a very wise man, a 55 lb dog, not to mention a 100 lb dog, that is mad can cause a lot of damage to a man, the attack could be fatal. The staff along with the pepper spray would do the trick unless its a pack of dogs. This is were you better have a gun or a couple tough ass dogs that won't run behind you and trip you. If this happen, then its supper time.

We must realize that guns are the last resort
if you do use a gun, you must be carful of your back drop (the area behind the target).
In the pack of dogs situation most of the time it would be in a wooded or deserted area. If you have to shot, the first shot should be just in front of the lead dog, as a warning. It will kick up dirt and this will usually send them running in another direction.

I just saw this thread and wanted to share my story of what happened to me today...
I have a 18 week old GSD Leerburg pup....great pup....I was taking him to a nearby park that I sometimes frequent.
I ussually have my pepper spray and service weapon with me when I bring out the pup to an outside place...Well this time I didnt have either...figures ( wont make that mistake again ).
I noticed that there was a truck parked in the lot and I saw an individual at the opposite end of the park with 1 dog right next to him (they were about 1/4 mile away from me). I didnt think much of it so I un crated my pup on lead. Just as I closed the truck door I noticed a siberian husky mixed mutt running full sprint towards us....he was about 40 feet away. As I didnt have any weapons with me I fell back on an article of Ed's re dog attacks. I got between the dogs before it's arrival....the dog then was barking, showing teeth and made a short lunge at me....as it did I raised my arms and took a step forward with a loud stern fooey ( i probobly should have used no, but that was what i was used to...and i dont think it would have mattered on the word though )...well as I did this action it stepped away still barking and everything...I repeated and it ran off...hooray for weak nerves (in this case at least). I figured that would work, but I knew if it didnt I may have to take a bite...but it would have been over after that as I would have done as Ed's article explaines and choke out the dog to death.
I then secured Justice in the crate and stayed in the truck until the owner finally lolygagged up 10 minutes later....
I was fuming as he walked up with 5 dogs...none of which were on lead...I ordered him to secure the dogs, and I then handled it in a stern professional manner(he wont be doing that again).
I'm sure some people may think I'm crazy putting myself in front but that dog is more than just a dog to me....and if the mutt did get to Justice, he would have lost trust in me knowing that I didnt protect him...
Any comments or criticisms are welcome.

Patrick

Right on Patrick for making him believe that you were going to rip his head off, AND for "straightening out" the owner. "Justice" is a great name for a service or personal protection dog.

I'm happy it went your way GSD56. Luck was on your side.

GSD56 - Patrick

Interesting I enjoyied reading your input. My
friend you were very lucky. Standing in front of an attacking dog, to save a 18 month GSD, humm you are a dog lover. But what was the dog doing, I've heard of strong nerves but I feel an united front would have been better. Two can always deter better then one.

Just an suggestion, start thinking more logical, with less emotional. Can your dog take you to the Doctor, buy medicine, food and water, nurse you back to health.

You can supply all this for your Pup and a 18 month GSD is probably bigger the a Huskie mutt, unless he's mixed with one of the giant breeds. But even at that snarling teeth and a brick or stick in your hand is a strong deterant.

And this guy had five dogs, off lease walked up to you to explain after his dog ran that far to threaten, sounds like he doesn't have much control. Its good, you let him know.
But if three of four of these dogs would have approached you really would have really been in trouble.

Anyway I can't agrue with success, stay brave, strong and healthy.

Read Workingdogs comments, I like what he had to say.