Alyssa,

I apologize for being part of derailing your post (probably should have read from first post down). I think your other thread "Obedience First or NO" is more on target for the info you were looking for. Work from there, you don't have to leave.

You have a lot to learn and you can do that here, even if sometimes it gets uncomfortable. I hope you stick around.

I'm sorry Alyssa,
I thought I had asked some simple basic questions that were not accusatory at all and would help you on the way to where you think you want to go.

Why didn't I get any answers?
Educate me.

 Quote: randy allen

I thought I had asked some simple basic questions that were not accusatory at all and would help you on the way to where you think you want to go.

Why didn't I get any answers?
Educate me.

You did ask simple basic questions. Replies to those questions would go a loooong way towards pointing this thread into the future.

I agree that she made some BIG errors with Enzo...but what is done is done. As sad & awful as it is or where the blame belongs.

I would just hate to see her get another pup, at this time, that may or may not, in the FUTURE, be able to do the work that she wants to do with the dog. I don't want to see her start off on the wrong foot out of the gate with a new pup, before other issues remain unresolved in her heart & mind. She is clearly not ready, for another dog, let alone a puppy, right now. She needs alot more knowledge & understanding of PP dogs & training before she begins.

In regard to why Randy's questions were not answered...

Perhaps because she was put on the defensive regarding Enzo, which was partly my fault and which I regret.

Regardless of what our personal feelings are about that situation, I think there is more expertise on this forum, and more folks who sincerely care about the dog first, people's feelings second, than Alyssa will find anywhere else.

Alyssa, if you are still reading, please give some thought to at least contacting the folks who were helpful to you via a PM and enlisting their help and advice - if you prefer to not discuss things publically. I believe this would be in the best interest of your new pup, and I hate to see you not get the help you want.

Barabra,
I resent the implication.
I have never made any comment inre to Enzo other then say this thread is not about that dog.
I don't give a tinkers dam about the past dog, only the dog in the future;
And her aim of training a PPD.
I have challedged her only on the point of why my questions were pointly ignored.

Don't try to make me part of your cabal in who did this or who did what.

I don't think Barbara's post was directed at you at all Randy, you only came into it when Barbara was attempting to explain why the op might of not answered your original questions.

dear Alyssa, i have read your posts and they seem remarkably a situation similar to mine recently - minus the deceased dog.
i can say the advice given to me by people here was always correct and good advice. i did not like to hear it at the time but am glad i listened eventually or i would have certainly found myself in a situation way over my head, which had the potential to be all bad. as it turns out fate saved me from myself and all i lost was some cash - the price of an education i figure. as newbies we want to do everything now. it is much easier to not get a problem than to try and fix one later.
in less than 2 years i started my dog in agility, tracking, herding, hunting & bite sports - it can't & doesn't work like that, i am lucky i have a dog that survived me long enough untill i got a brain.
take your time discover what you really want and most importantly listen to a range of opinions do your research and don't get pushed or rush into anything.
people here don't make a financial profit from what they say. that is a good indicator of quality of data even though you may feel you are the subject of a shark feeding frenzy, which just activates your defence drive - i was there.
many others will say anything you want to hear to get a buck out of you. some of best advice is often what we don't want to hear - fact of life.
hope all works out for you, good luck.

Peter, thank you for you post. Hopefully Alyssa will see it & save her from a similar heartache & expensive lesson.

Alyssa, you need to learn a great deal more about PP dogs & training in general, before going forward. You need to learn, learn, learn as much as possible.

I remember reading the LB articles & this forum & anything that I could get my hands on about pedigrees, line traits etc for at least 2+ years before I got my LB bitch. And I still only have touched the tip of the iceberg. (I have been a member here for almost 7 years (a short while after getting my girl) & lurked for at least another 2+ years before that) I had numerous people that I spoke to about LB & working sport dogs, PPDs etc,before sending a check to LB for a puppy. A LE (cop)friend of mine, that did SchH with his dobes, was the one to give me the final go-ahead to send off my check for a LB pup. He purchased products from LB for his dogs & had only heard good things about the LB dogs. I am stating this, not to boast about LB dogs, although they have produced many outstanding dogs, but to tell you about the research that I put in before purchasing. It can be VERY confusing & costly to find a good dog. I still have lots to learn, when compared to some of the people training in sports & the PPD venue for 20 + years or more. I was lucky enough to find someone that took me under his wing & mentored me & worked my dog. He had the top ScH 3 dog in the country in the 90s & had bred & raised this dog & others that stood on the podium with him at the Nationals. He had many of the top competitors in Europe as friends that would stay at his house when they were in the US. I got REAL lucky with finding this man to work with me, even if I decided that I am really not a big SchH fan & haven't done it in a number or years & went more the PPD route. His training & working my dog put me ages ahead of where I would have been if not for his guidance or just working with run of the mill trainers that talked more about how great of trainers they are & have no real titles behind them. He really took me on, because he really loved my dog. He was not training SchH anymore. He had closed down his club & was just working his own dogs. His greatest compliment was that he wanted to buy, beg, trade or steal my dog & title & breed her, he loved her so much & felt that she was one of the hard to find special females.

I will paraphrase what Will Rambeau has said numberous times:
If I was completely new to this, like it seems you are, I would be looking for someone that has numerous titles, you can verify, & comes highly recommended & drag him around to see some litters you think that you might be interested in & look at dogs that are the parents & that they can do the work & see them work with YOUR decoy. At least you will at least have a greater understanding of the litter & what they hopefully will develope into.

It is not easy to find the right dog for the work,especially when looking for a puppy. In fact there are tons of dogs that wash out because they don't have what it takes. Take it from me, I've had 2 of them.

After a couple of bad experiences, I have learned NOT to trust anyone when it comes to dogs, unless it is someone that I personally know & have spent time with or know is highly respected as a breeder of working dogs that have proven themselves on the field....even then, I want to see the pups myself. Pups are a crap shoot. As much as I love to raise them, I am leaning toward my next one being a green dog at 12 to 18 months old. At this point you have a much better idea of what the dog’s strengths & weaknesses are & if they are suited to what your plans for the dog are.

Alyssa, hopefully, you will still come & read some of the good, honest information that this site has to offer you. Good luck with making the right decision in the future.

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: randy allen

I thought I had asked some simple basic questions that were not accusatory at all and would help you on the way to where you think you want to go.

Why didn't I get any answers?
Educate me.

You did ask simple basic questions. Replies to those questions would go a loooong way towards pointing this thread into the future.

Randy, In no way was I inferring anything negative nor trying to make you a part of my "cabal"... Just the opposite in fact. I'm sorry that wasn't clear.

I was attempting to respond to the above post but didn't hit "quote" - just reply, but instead of backing out again and hitting quote, I went ahead and then added "In regard to Randy's questions"... blah, blah, blah.

It was meant to say maybe the reason you didn't get the anawers to the legitimate questions asked, was perhaps because of MY putting her on the defensive.

I'm pretty sure I said "me" and "regret" and nothing inflammatory about you, so again, sorry it came across as anything other than intended.

PS.. Thank you Betty.