Quote: eric dziedzic

I'm in Milan! Where are you?

That's funny. My nephew who lives with me is dating someone from Milan, so I keep hearing about it lol

I am in Redford.

Here is the link for the co-op: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/SEMichiganRAWCo-op/

They used to do orders down to Eastern Market, in Detroit, but they haven't in awhile.

I get an order of G&C Raw, up from Ohio, every other month on the third Saturday, that anyone is welcome to join into.

We also have a someone who comes up the beef organs, tripe and turkey at great prices every once in awhile.

I have also found this place to have a great chicken mix and turkey mix. The chicken is 85 cents/lb and the turkey is 1.15/lb...bone, meat and organs ground in both. I usually just buy a few cases and run to the Royal Oak farmer's market to pick up.

What an interesting thread!

I wanted to chime in on the conformational issue that started this whole thing, if that's okay.

A poor diet can indeed cause conformational problems with bone and muscle development. Google "Great Dane Lady" for pictures of what an incorrect diet can do to a large or giant breed dog.

That said, even a flawless diet will not "overcome" conformational problems, ie: toeing out behind (the condition you described). Large breed dogs, however, can go through some serious "wonkies" while growing up. Basically, what you see at 8 weeks should be (with proper nutrition) what you see at 2-3 years of age.

I am more accustomed to seeing the easty/westy (toeing out) in the front of a growing dog. While their chest is slower to develop (picture your average teenage boy), those front legs can do all sorts of bizarre things.

You can do a little experiment. Hold your arms straight in front of you at about a 45 degree angle downward, and splay your hands. Now, exhale and adjust your splayed hands so that your thumbs are parallel. Take in a big deep breath, and see what happens to the alignment of your hands (the dog's feet). They return to a more normal/aligned position.

Toeing out in the rear, however, is different. As long as the dog moves with those feet in proper alignment (making a "V" when moving away), and is not "cowhocked" (making an upside-down "V" when moving away), I wouldn't worry too much about it.

So, in summary, if his alignments were correct at 8 weeks, they will probably be correct when he is 2, no matter what goes on in-between. If not, well....no dog is perfect, and this is a very common fault which no diet on earth will correct.

Good luck with your young man. What a handsome devil he is!
Tracy

Still doing more research and found myself on the Purina One website where they educate on the dangers of a raw diet. They give examples but examples in excess and not consistent with the raw diet except for one paragraph:

"Raw meat diets do not replicate the diets of dogs in the wild. While it's true that dogs consume muscle meat when they eat wild animals for survival, they also consume the bones, intestinal contents and internal organs, which come closer to providing a complete and balanced diet. Wild dogs are also known to eat grasses and other vegetable matter."

I was glad to find this because this tells me the raw diet, when done right, is better, and Purina acknowledges it! LOL

http://www.purinaone.com/cooltools/Nutrition101.aspx?ArticleId=A1423FE9-FAB2-4DC6-8ADA-1FF34CFE76C8&species=Dog

 Quote: eric dziedzic

Still doing more research and found myself on the Purina One website where they educate on the dangers of a raw diet. They give examples but examples in excess and not consistent with the raw diet except for one paragraph:

"Raw meat diets do not replicate the diets of dogs in the wild. While it's true that dogs consume muscle meat when they eat wild animals for survival, they also consume the bones, intestinal contents and internal organs, which come closer to providing a complete and balanced diet. Wild dogs are also known to eat grasses and other vegetable matter."

I was glad to find this because this tells me the raw diet, when done right, is better, and Purina acknowledges it! LOL

http://www.purinaone.com/cooltools/Nutrition101.aspx?ArticleId=A1423FE9-FAB2-4DC6-8ADA-1FF34CFE76C8&species=Dog

Awesome. Straight from the devil-lips of Purina themselves, validation of the raw diet as recommended by LB.

 Quote: tracyroche

What an interesting thread!

I wanted to chime in on the conformational issue that started this whole thing, if that's okay.

A poor diet can indeed cause conformational problems with bone and muscle development. Google "Great Dane Lady" for pictures of what an incorrect diet can do to a large or giant breed dog.

That said, even a flawless diet will not "overcome" conformational problems, ie: toeing out behind (the condition you described). Large breed dogs, however, can go through some serious "wonkies" while growing up. Basically, what you see at 8 weeks should be (with proper nutrition) what you see at 2-3 years of age.

I am more accustomed to seeing the easty/westy (toeing out) in the front of a growing dog. While their chest is slower to develop (picture your average teenage boy), those front legs can do all sorts of bizarre things.

You can do a little experiment. Hold your arms straight in front of you at about a 45 degree angle downward, and splay your hands. Now, exhale and adjust your splayed hands so that your thumbs are parallel. Take in a big deep breath, and see what happens to the alignment of your hands (the dog's feet). They return to a more normal/aligned position.

Toeing out in the rear, however, is different. As long as the dog moves with those feet in proper alignment (making a "V" when moving away), and is not "cowhocked" (making an upside-down "V" when moving away), I wouldn't worry too much about it.

So, in summary, if his alignments were correct at 8 weeks, they will probably be correct when he is 2, no matter what goes on in-between. If not, well....no dog is perfect, and this is a very common fault which no diet on earth will correct.

Good luck with your young man. What a handsome devil he is!
Tracy

Tracy,

Thanks for this info about "easty/westy". JD didn't toe out in the front as a puppy but as he's grown he does. My mother-in-law insisted I should bombard him with Vit D because that's what she does with her llamas but I politely declined. He's only 18 mos now so I'll be interested to see how he is at 2-3 years.

I'm used to horses that when they toe out ("splay footed" as they call it) rarely change with growth. Never had a dog that toes out to see what the end result would be.

Thanks again!