Quote: cathy goessman

I like the slow going method also but what exactly is the dog getting marked for? For the first two weeks they were taught to re-focis on their handlers(good!), then they were taught to focus on a stuffed dog(why? the dog knows it's not real), and then taught to look at the other dog(confrontational and NOT good!). Changing the marked behavior when faced with another dog every week just confuses the dog.

It's not the focus on the other dog, it's the *calm* looking. Basically it its acceptable to look when you're calm. Since many reactive dogs have fear based issues, this gives them a setting where they can stay under threshold and learn to be comfortable in the vicinity of other dogs. Once the dog is comfortable and has learned the the other dog isn't the "boogie man" (marking/treating for calm looking) then you're in a position to ask your dog to focus on you and it can because it's not worried about other dogs that may be around.

 Quote: Cathy Goessman

 Quote: Lynne Barrows

I love the really controlled, slow aspect of this. No flooding and each dog apparently is moving at his own pace.

I like the slow going method also but what exactly is the dog getting marked for? For the first two weeks they were taught to re-focis on their handlers(good!), then they were taught to focus on a stuffed dog(why? the dog knows it's not real), and then taught to look at the other dog(confrontational and NOT good!). Changing the marked behavior when faced with another dog every week just confuses the dog.

Hi Cathy,

Yes it's as Mara said, we are clicking for calm behavior when they look at the dog. some people seem to think, it would be better to train the dog to only look at you and completely ignore the other dog. i've honestly always thought this to be somewhat unrealistic, and not what i really want to do. i think it's OKAY for my dog to realize she has to coexist with other dogs, and that they do exist, i just want her to do it CALMLY! i think that should come first anyway.

Also, I wouldn't go so far to say the dog doesn't necessarily know the stuffed dog isn't real. I watched a youtube video of a reactive class where one dog was extremely reactive toward a large stuffed dog. so i don't think you can necessarily know that.

anyway, we had our 5th class this week. luanne did okay, but did have her moments of weakness. we practiced more of the opening the barriers to let the dogs see some of the other dogs. they might have 2 or 3 at the most open at once. we would stay in our spots though. my dog would get particularly frustrated at the dog closest to us. she is OKAY seeing a dog that doesn't make a lot of sudden movements, and jumping around and stuff, but it seems to set her off more when a dog is moving around a lot.

the trainers seemed to think most everyone in the class was ready to move on the next level. they said level 2 class has the dogs in a parking lot, a parking space for each dog, and cars as barriers. the dogs learn more how to gradually come out of their spots and get closer to other dogs, and toward the end of the level 2 classes, they may even start to sniff eachother. the trainers said a lot of people will spend time taking the level 2 class over and over again until they are ready to move on to class 3, which focuses on the dogs actually greeting and playing off leash.

on our walks, luanne is still reactive, but i just have to remember to always be prepared. i think as long as i have treats ready, and clicker ready, it gets a lot easier for both of us.

Been watching this thread intently... Seems like it's going "ok" -
A few things I would point out, just mho tho.

1 I personally would not encourage the dog to look at other dogs. People are not dogs, and to assume that anyone knows what is going on in that "look" is irresponsible, in my opinion. Both dogs know the breed sex and dominance level of the other (or lack thereof in the case of the stufffed toy) by smell alone before ever even seeing one another. If they are not looking at each other, there is a reason- leave well enough alone.

2 I would not allow the dog to be on a harness of any sort near any type of dog for any reason if it's reactive. It's restrictive, and the tension can create additional problems - keep in mind fighters use harnesses to create frustration and drive in a stressed dog... (again, my opinion)


3 while the slow approach of allowing the dog to exist around other dogs Isn't a bad idea (provided the dog is handling it ok) I think allowing them to "meet, sniff or play" is a really bad idea. You are essentially telling your dog "trust me I will protect you and keep the dog away from you" then betraying that trust and allowing it anyway. You are also putting an awful lot of faith in another reactive dog. Not good. MAYBE if it were a nonreactive even keeled dog. MAYBE if it were 6 months or so down the road. A few weeks later? No way. All the trust you've created will go right down the toilet.

Personally I'm not a fan of rewarding for not attacking or fighting or reacting- who can say why those behaviors are happening? Instead, I would reward only for an action- looking at me, focusing on me, etc. Those are behaviors that I can tell why and what the dog is doing. Less confusion or the dog, IMHO.
Anyway, those are my thoughts

Hi, Cameron,

Would you please reduce width of sig pic?

It forces scrolling on many screens.

Thanks!


And back to topic .......

Connie - Sorry about that ;-)

 Quote: Cameron Feathers

Both dogs know the breed sex and dominance level of the other

Sorry this was a typo. I meant to say BOTH not BREED. LOL typing too fast..
SHOULD have said:
Both dogs know both sex and dominance level of the other by smell alone without seeing each other.

Interesting thread, it's a good read and worth following, if only for some different ideas on how to handle reactive dogs.

 Quote: jenn verrier

Also, I wouldn't go so far to say the dog doesn't necessarily know the stuffed dog isn't real. I watched a youtube video of a reactive class where one dog was extremely reactive toward a large stuffed dog. so i don't think you can necessarily know that.

I agree with Jenn, some reactive dogs won't realize a fake dog is fake, especially if they don't get to close to it. I saw a dog attack a life sized statue of another dog once, and didn't stop until after he'd already made physical contact with it, and then he realized it wasn't real. But was still growling, hackled up, walking around it stiff legged, etc until his handler came and got him.

 Quote: cameron feathers

3 while the slow approach of allowing the dog to exist around other dogs Isn't a bad idea (provided the dog is handling it ok) I think allowing them to "meet, sniff or play" is a really bad idea. You are essentially telling your dog "trust me I will protect you and keep the dog away from you" then betraying that trust and allowing it anyway. You are also putting an awful lot of faith in another reactive dog. Not good. MAYBE if it were a nonreactive even keeled dog. MAYBE if it were 6 months or so down the road. A few weeks later? No way. All the trust you've created will go right down the toilet.

I am not planning on going on to Level 2 just yet, especially since the level 2 class starts too early for me to even get there. I'd have to wait till another level 2 class starts and is later in the evening, and in the mean time plan to practice practice practice.

like i said the trainers noted that level 2 class might be taken over and over again. some dogs might not start greeting/sniffing the first time around, i think it all depends on how the dog is doing.

a couple of dogs in the class, i am surprised are even there actually. there is one that does not seem reactive at all, and is calm all the time! maybe for instance, that dog would be okay to move on and start greeting. mine is not ready though!

Eh different strokes I guess.
I don't allow any dog regardless of temperament meet and greet or play, ever. Exist, ignore, yes. Blow me off and relate to another dog? Not a chance. I view it as having two separate end goals. I guess the ultimate question would be why? For what point? So your dog can go to dog parks? Is it a working dog? Is this for daycare? Agility? What was the ultimate reason for deciding your dog needed this class?

my reason for this class was because my dog goes bat sh*t crazy when we walk down the street and see other dogs! i'm tired of the stress of it, i'm tired of the embarassment, i'm tired of constantly hiding behind things, crossing the street, the stares, the comments, etc etc. i love my dog to death but it's exhausting. and to be honest, i feel like my dog's life kinda sucks because all we really do is go for walks on the same routes every day (where we know we won't have to see too many dogs), then come inside.

i want my dog to be able to go outside and not be constantly on edge, or looking for a dog to scream at.

i would LOVE my dog to do agility one day. i would LOVE my dog to be able to have dog friends. while at this point, it's cool if we can't go to a dog park. i would love for her to have A friend, a doggy play dates with them or something. there was this one dog, leroy, that belonged to someone who would take care of luanne while i was away. my dog LOVED that dog leroy. i have no idea what it was about him, but she was so happy around him.

anyway, i'm going way off on a tangent here. my MAIN goal is just to stop the reactivity. at some point, it would be nice if my dog can be friendly with other dogs. if not, that's fine as long as we can stop the reacting.

oops double post!