Re: Switch to raw and progression questions...
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#376696 - 04/19/2013 10:00 PM |
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Thank you! I am gonna try and find that article online from the WDJ that was mentioned "raw diet pitfalls". Sounds like some good info. The other links to dog aware are helpful as well.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand this right, if 1lb of THK has a balanced bone/meat ratio then being that THK is considered 1lb per cup, if I'm feeding 3 lbs total food, and 2 lbs is THK (hypothetically), and I wanted to add in some raw for the extra pound, if I added a 1lb leg quarter, that would be correct, or if i added a back that was 8oz. an addition of 8oz muscle meat would get me the same results as far as balance goes.
Oh and btw the box of thrive doesn't list any "add-in amounts"
For vitamin e and fish oil, do you change the amounts if you are feeding THK with some in that as well? I see vitamin e listed, but not an amount and it doesn't say anything about salmon oil.
Thanks again!
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Re: Switch to raw and progression questions...
[Re: Mychal Scott ]
#376712 - 04/19/2013 11:39 PM |
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The web site suggests a half cup of add-ins to each dry-measured cup of food.
(But if the add-in is balanced, then even for puppies you can safely use more.)
QUOTE: ... if I understand this right, if 1lb of THK has a balanced bone/meat ratio then being that THK is considered 1lb per cup, if I'm feeding 3 lbs total food, and 2 lbs is THK (hypothetically), and I wanted to add in some raw for the extra pound, if I added a 1lb leg quarter, that would be correct, or if i added a back that was 8oz. an addition of 8oz muscle meat would get me the same results as far as balance goes. END
Yes, if I'm following you.
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Re: Switch to raw and progression questions...
[Re: Mychal Scott ]
#376713 - 04/19/2013 11:45 PM |
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"For vitamin e and fish oil, do you change the amounts if you are feeding THK with some in that as well? I see vitamin e listed, but not an amount and it doesn't say anything about salmon oil. "
They don't add fish oil, and you don't need to change the amount of E you give with the fish oil.
The amount of E in dog food is very small, and oil supplements can deplete the body's stores of Vitamin E.
Did you get a dosage suggestion for the dog's weight? (I'm mixing up three ongoing raw-and-THK-for-puppies threads in my mind. )
If not, just post the present weight and we can give you dosage suggestions.
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Re: Switch to raw and progression questions...
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#376715 - 04/20/2013 10:09 AM |
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As for that Honest Kitchen, they measure everything in cups. 1 cup of THK dry makes one pound hydrated. They say for every cup of extras, reduce THK by 1/2 cup. 1cup is equal to 8oz of extras. So for example, 3 lbs food per day, if I give 1 lb of extras (RMB's, mm, etc)' I should be giving 2 lbs (two dry cups) of THK.
Yeah I have the dosage for vit E and oil, assuming it always goes by weight and doesn't matter if its a puppy or not.
He is just over 60lbs.
Vitamin E would be 400iu, I will give him 200iu for a bit to get him used to it then move on to the 400iu.
I have the vitamin E d-alpha tocopherol with d-beta, d-delta, and d-gamma tocopherols. Ingredients are safflower oil, gelatin and vegetable oil.
Salmon oil, I have the Grizzy brand, it recommends 3 pumps. Same thing, I plan to start with one pump and move up to the suggested 3 pumps over a few meals if all is going ok.
I plan to start one at a time to be able to determine which one is causing issues if any. I'll start the vitamin E first and get that up to correct dosage, then start the salmon oil.
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Re: Switch to raw and progression questions...
[Re: Mychal Scott ]
#376720 - 04/20/2013 11:18 AM |
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"As for that Honest Kitchen, they measure everything in cups. 1 cup of THK dry makes one pound hydrated. They say for every cup of extras, reduce THK by 1/2 cup. 1cup is equal to 8oz of extras. So for example, 3 lbs food per day, if I give 1 lb of extras (RMB's, mm, etc)' I should be giving 2 lbs (two dry cups) of THK. "
Well, the amount of food is one thing, and the balancing is another. The extras, if given in such a high portion of the total meal, need to be balanced, and especially for a growing pup.
I think you understand that, but I'm saying it again for anonymous readers.
When you exceed a half cup of add-ins to each dry-measured cup of food, you need to balance the add-ins. The more you exceed a half cup of add-ins to each dry-measured cup of food, the more important balancing the add-ins becomes.
As you increase the add-in ratio, you are moving more toward homemade raw with a side of THK. And http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=32656&page=1 explains how homemade raw is meat-bone balanced.
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Re: Switch to raw and progression questions...
[Re: Mychal Scott ]
#376757 - 04/22/2013 03:48 PM |
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Re: Switch to raw and progression questions...
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#376762 - 04/22/2013 07:37 PM |
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Goin well. I do have a question regarding organ meat. I am using backs which 99% of the time have organs still attached, kidneys I think. I'm thinking I need to be adding a little more a few times a week to balance out the add-ins for THK? I'm using the 1/3 backs/necks. And the other 2/3 is b/s breast for the add-ins. I know organs are a small amount of the overall diet, just wondering if a small addition of them based on the add-in weight is necessary in addition to what is in the backs already.
He is doing great with all of the chicken parts so far, I want to start adding variety as far as a different animal source. We mainly have chicken, beef, and pork at the meat counters in the grocery stores here. Is there a preference to what I should or shouldn't go to next? One easier transition than the other? Anything to avoid?
Also have a butcher facility (not a meat market, just a slaughter/packaging place) that does locals livestock and wild game. Not sure if any "leftovers" would be of use or safe?
I believe there is a co-op in so-cal also I may look into for the future once we get going.
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Re: Switch to raw and progression questions...
[Re: Mychal Scott ]
#376914 - 04/26/2013 07:04 PM |
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Adding organ meats:
If a substantial amount of the food is not THK, then yes, it needs to be balanced. Part of that is to make sure that 5 to 10% is organ meat.
That is, the THK does not need organ meat to balance it, but 5 to 10% of the homemade part needs to be organ meat. Liver is easy to find. It would be added very gradually, because it's one of the common diarrhea triggers if suddenly added in large amounts.
About the muscle meat .... yes, beef is a simple one to start with, simply swapping out a bit of the boneless chicken you are now using for some beef. I do this in stages, too, especially if I'm using beef heart (which is really a boneless muscle meat).
"Also have a butcher facility (not a meat market, just a slaughter/packaging place) that does locals livestock and wild game. Not sure if any "leftovers" would be of use or safe?"
Like what? You mean meat, or organs, or bone dust ..... ? There are also some caveats about a few items (like bear, wild boar, anything with buckshot in it) .....
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Re: Switch to raw and progression questions...
[Re: Mychal Scott ]
#376924 - 04/27/2013 12:09 AM |
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Check the "slaughterhouse/packaging place" for green tripe!
old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks |
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Re: Switch to raw and progression questions...
[Re: Bob Scott ]
#376955 - 04/28/2013 10:52 AM |
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Check the "slaughterhouse/packaging place" for green tripe!
Excellent suggestion!
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