Quote: SamanthaTopper

What is the difference between a tug and a ball? The dog has to bite the ball just like he has to bite the tug in order to interact with it. How is a ball a better reward for teaching a dog to bark on command and then to eventually point that dog at someone while he's barking on command? How is biting a ball and not biting a jute or leather tug going to decrease liability? How is a barking dog a liability at all?

For a reward, tug, ball or whatever motivates him to bark. Having the dog bark for a reward vs barking in defense.

I'm sure you can get the dog to bark in prey for a toy. I see untrained dogs barking for a toy all the time.

But you want a threat display, right? Even if the dog is in prey for the toy, if you practice a real scenario with someone else involved, you might start working the dog in defense. You might create suspicion even if you are using toys.

I could easily see a scenario where a toy-driven dog is told to bark at the scary drug dealer and turns and barks at you for the toy, ignoring the boring person.

The type of PPD most people envision, a dog that can go everywhere safely but turned "ON" when needed, is born, not made. You need the right genetics. If you don't have it, you are playing with fire.

On the other hand, plenty of dogs can give threat displays and even follow through, and make great guard dogs for the homestead but they won't have that control or on/off switch.

I tend to think you should be happy with the dog you have and give up on the threat display idea. I just see a whole lot of issues with this unless you are being guided by an experienced professional AND have the correct dog for the job.

Ditto with Steve. Teaching an actual threat display can be stressful for anything but a very confident dog.
When I was in SAR we taught the dog to bark at the "victim" for a kong reward. They loved that. Just put a command with it. You also need to be able to shut it off when commanded to do so.
Also know that if you allow this when just going for walks it could come back against you if neighbors "decide" you have an aggressive dog that barks at everyone.

I tried to get a speak when we were out for a walk this morning - 2 air bites and the most pitiful muffled 'woof?' later - I rewarded for the sound Oh well. If someone tries to come at me and my big mean looking dog, I'll just have to beat them up myself

I like the idea of the SAR bark alert, I'll let you know if I get any progress with that, sometime in 2014 probably.

In my limited experience in training dogs to bark for a bite, that initial muffled woof is not all that uncommon. In the beginning, you did right to mark the attempt. Personally, from the instruction that I have received, you continue to encourage the effort, but as he learns that you are asking for a vocalization, you bridge it and withhold the mark until you get the deep bark that you are after. IMHO, if you keep working it with markers, you can get it without putting him in defense.

Kristin, the teeth snapping would make him look viscous to the average person.

I'll see if I can get one on vid for 'dessert' with the training vid

Here's a clip of Kipp's "bark alert". Trained for SAR, but transfers to anywhere he is asked to give it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJxoDGbLAW4&feature=youtu.be

 Quote: Mara Jessup

Here's a clip of Kipp's "bark alert". Trained for SAR, but transfers to anywhere he is asked to give it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJxoDGbLAW4&feature=youtu.be

Did this come from a no-bark beginning?

I'll also add that he didn't bark before I got him. It was trained with frustration/drive building. Built drive for the food/toy reward. Rewarded when he barked. We were always working in drive when shaping the bark alert and the excitement of drive building added to the strength of the barking.