There's no reason to "test" his level of respect. Just keep it up. Leaders go first. Leaders provide food. Leaders control (and fairly share) the resources. Leaders don't go around a dog laying in the middle of the floor. Leaders set the rules and enforce them consistently. Leaders don't take any guff. This is how you live with a dog.

Nothing I've described here requires an e-collar. I'm not against them as a training tool. But they aren't a "required" tool to owning a well-behaved dog. If the dog respects you as a leader a step into their personal space or a firm "knock it off" is plenty enough to make a dog behave.

So he's no longer being pushy? (you had described this in a post earlier today.)

Now that you've "changed the relationship to a much more positive one," what are the specific issues you are still having with Axel?

Are you training Obedience--capital O--for competition, or just looking to have a well-mannered house dog?

 Quote: Tracy Collins

There's no reason to "test" his level of respect. Just keep it up. Leaders go first. Leaders provide food. Leaders control (and fairly share) the resources. Leaders don't go around a dog laying in the middle of the floor. Leaders set the rules and enforce them consistently. Leaders don't take any guff. This is how you live with a dog.

Nothing I've described here requires an e-collar. I'm not against them as a training tool. But they aren't a "required" tool to owning a well-behaved dog. If the dog respects you as a leader a step into their personal space or a firm "knock it off" is plenty enough to make a dog behave.

So he's no longer being pushy? (you had described this in a post earlier today.)

Now that you've "changed the relationship to a much more positive one," what are the specific issues you are still having with Axel?

Are you training Obedience--capital O--for competition, or just looking to have a well-mannered house dog?

Looking for a well mannered dog. No competition.

The test is what you say here:

Current doings.

Axle is required to sit, wait for Sam & I to clear the doorway and release him saying "free".

Axle is required to sit off the bed, allow us to get comfy (undressed, prepared for bed, in bed, comfy), then we release him saying "free". Then he can jump on the bed and get comfy around us.

Axle is required to sit before entering the vehicle, once I am ready for him to enter - he is released with "free". Then when we come to a location to exit, he is required to sit. I get out, he remains seated till I am ready for him to get out. Then I say "free" and he can exit.

These changes alone have changed the relationship to a much more positive one and I do believe he respects me more.


You have seen some results of pack structure work.

It's also a style of life. As mentioned earlier, you don't walk around the dog ... you never respond to a demand from the dog (for petting, for attention, etc.) ... as posted earlier, "dog wants to go out the door? He must sit. He must wait for you to open the door and go through first and wait for a release word. If at any point his butt leaves the floor, you close the door and start over. It doesn't require you saying or doing anything but waiting him out. "

And the test is simply his improved manners.


What are you still seeing in the way of pushiness?

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

What are you still seeing in the way of pushiness?

Unfortunately it occurs when I am not around, it occurs only with my significant other because I do not think he respects her. I've tried, tried, tried to get her to understand the reasoning. Yesterday I sent her a few of the Leerburg articles I was reading in hopes this changes her thought process...he gets very testy with her, very feisty - borderline aggressive.

 Quote: Rob Maltese

I don't know if I should ask the trainer or not... I don't want to step on his toes?

We were told when we got Axle back that he knows the word "No" and he knows the word "Yes"... how much further he knows - I'm not sure...

I would call the trainer and ask exactly what context those words were used in. Especially if you try to use "Yes" as a marker. It's not stepping on their toes. You just want to be on the same page with your dog.

 Quote: Rob Maltese

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

What are you still seeing in the way of pushiness?

Unfortunately it occurs when I am not around, it occurs only with my significant other because I do not think he respects her. I've tried, tried, tried to get her to understand the reasoning. Yesterday I sent her a few of the Leerburg articles I was reading in hopes this changes her thought process...he gets very testy with her, very feisty - borderline aggressive.

Well, you’ve learned quite a bit about pack structure recently, and done enough work on it to see how crucial it is.

So you won't be shocked when I say that this is putting both the humans and the dog in harm's way.

I'm sending you a PM.

The situation with the dog and the significant other can't be fixed by you independently.

As you've seen already, dogs aren't computers that can be "programmed" by others to perform reliably. Dogs require a healthy relationship with the humans they live with. If this dog is going to live with another human besides you, that person will also need to have at least a little bit of understanding of how to live safely with a dog.

Some dogs are soft and easy pets who never show any desire to assert themselves. Even in a leaderless pack they can do okay (even if they are neurotic). But you don't have one of those dogs. You picked a breed-- and an individual-- that requires more effort.

Worst case scenario is somebody gets bit and the dog will pay for it. The SO needs to realize this. And realize that this dog is another sentient living thing that you chose to live in your home. He didn't have any choice in this, and does not have the capacity to be anything more or less than he is.

What I'm trying to say is you have to spend as much time training the humans as you do training the dog.

 Quote: Tracy Collins

The situation with the dog and the significant other can't be fixed by you independently.

As you've seen already, dogs aren't computers that can be "programmed" by others to perform reliably. Dogs require a healthy relationship with the humans they live with. If this dog is going to live with another human besides you, that person will also need to have at least a little bit of understanding of how to live safely with a dog.

Some dogs are soft and easy pets who never show any desire to assert themselves. Even in a leaderless pack they can do okay (even if they are neurotic). But you don't have one of those dogs. You picked a breed-- and an individual-- that requires more effort.

Worst case scenario is somebody gets bit and the dog will pay for it. The SO needs to realize this. And realize that this dog is another sentient living thing that you chose to live in your home. He didn't have any choice in this, and does not have the capacity to be anything more or less than he is.

What I'm trying to say is you have to spend as much time training the humans as you do training the dog.

I understand this, completely. I do believe that the human needs more training then the dog. I now sort of believe I wasted $1,450 when it could've been spent on better training. I tried to be apart of the training, I offered to drive up everyday (4 hour round trip) to be apart of the training...but he stated that it would cause more stress within the dog because the dog wouldn't understand why he cannot come home with you that night.


My issue right now is that the dog goes everywhere with me, I mean everywhere... I go to the bank, he's riding shotgun. I go to the gas station, he's my copilot. I go to the fire station for a fire call, he's my backup guy. I like to go into different places that allow dogs, to work with him and put him in different everyday situations. While at Petsmart for instance we will do person interaction, I will allow him to meet one or two people. We will walk around the store, we will look at a few things all while giving him basic commands, sit, down, heel, stay. I may be wrong, but I feel this builds a relationship with the dog...good, great, bad, or indifferent - it builds a relationship with him.

My SO on the other hand, if she goes out...she crates him and leaves. Goes out for hours, then comes home and expects him to be an angel. She doesn't understand the impact exercise and a little structure has on him or even how much a simple walk around the block builds a one on one relationship between her and the dog. Again, these are all just my opinions knowing nothing about dog training as you all can see... but these little things have to account for something.


Forgive my babbling, I am frustrated.

Your SO doesn't have to be as much of a dog person as you are. Most of us live with others who don't share the same degree of dog-crazy that we do. It's okay.

So it just requires a change of mindset from you. Axel is YOUR dog. You are 100% responsible for his care, exercise, and training. And it sounds like you are doing a great job of it. It's better that SO has no interaction with him than counter-productive interaction. So count her out of the training picture and readjust your vision of how things are going to work going forward.

Axel and SO interact only when you are there. Then it's up to you to ensure he behaves mannerly toward her.

You've created an expectation (apparently without agreement from SO) that Axel would be "our" dog. Just change the mental construct: Axel is "my" dog.

Hey Rob, if you think about what Tracy's telling you, I can tell you from experience that will go a very long way towards ending your frustration. My wife's relationship with our dogs is very different from mine and it works because we're different and the dogs know that.

In real general terms, I'm obedience, she's management. The dogs respect that and fit into both. You can't force something that isn't there. Its all about safety.