IMO you do something 100% right or not at all. You don't start training a dog to do PP work and let people who have no understanding of what a dog does, or how it should be done stop training whenever they want because they pay "by the session."

By charging this way you let people choose when they "think" they have had enough training for their dog. This is IMO a BIG liability for EVERYONE.

If it's a $ thing, well perhaps you should save until you can afford to do it right with the correct trainer. If your concern is your dogs well being and your safety why would you short change yourself and your dog?

I also don't understand "threat" dog training. IMO why? Can't you just teach the dog to bark on a cue of someone knocking at your door or at the doorbell? If you want the "show" what happens to you and your dog when someone doesn't buy the "show"? Getting you a$$ handed to you while your dog circles and barks at someone isn't worth the money you saved by training on the cheap now is it? It's like bringing a starters pistol to a real gunfight...looks like a gun...it even goes "bang..."

IMO you train the dog 100% start to finish in a manner that educates the owners and is best for the dog. that said most dogs people come here with don't even pass our basic criteria for possible training. Just to save someone from asking...we require:
The dog have complete, proper basic on lead obedience.
The dog be evaluated for PP work and pass my testing.
The dog be social and have a very stable temperament.
The client consent to a home inspection and criminal background check for anyone in the home over the age of 16.
Needless to say, I don't have too many civilian PP clients....oh well...
Oh yea..we also do not teach any off lead bitework except if the dog is out of sight or in a stay and the handler calls the dog to help them while under attack. There is no reason for long distance bitework in PP in the REAL world.

I agree with everything you said. I'm with you on the "show" thing. I want to feel 100% safe and secure knowing my dog will be able to protect me. I'm not the "average person" who's happy just knowing their dog can look vicious and mean on command. I'm also not the "average person" when it comes to working with my dog. I have been lax in the past week, with moving and all (I just bought a house), but on average I work with my dog for at least 30min. every single day. If nothing else but to keep her basic obedience sharp.


When I spoke with the guy at Panzer, he sounded like a really decent guy. He pretty much requires a dog to pass the Canine Good Citizen test before he will even consider it for protection work. He even knocks $25 off the evaluation fee (which is $50) if your dog has the CGC Certificate. IF your dog does not have CGC Certification, then it must at least be able to perform basic obedience commands reliably. I don't know if he requires a background check, but that's a REALLY good idea. If he doesn't, and I decide to use him (as opposed to the trainer I'm working with now - the one that charges on a lesson-by-lesson basis), I may mention that to him, especially since he works with dogs that are already known to be "thug dogs".

I agree with Josh Lewis.. You hit it head on. Most people do not understand the liability and responsibility of owning a personal protection dog.. I would say more than 90 percent of dog owners have NO IDEA the training, the upkeep of owning a PP dog.

Kristen.. If you want to "bond" with the dog and do training and have a dog that deters people, you would be much better off with a sport dog that is taught to bark on cue and act aggressively by command. From your posts and from what youve been writing, you need a sport dog, not a PP dog. That is my opinon. The majority of people see that you give a dog the command to act aggressively and they will walk away or RUN away, or shit in their pants. Those are the facts.

Just my .02 cents

Sammy Blondin wrote: .. and yea, I think $65 is outragous considering it takes a very short amount of time to produce a so called PP dog. Lets encourage scandelous amounts of money for training that requires a very small skill set!

LC: I guess we have different standards and perhaps different definitions of what a PP dog is. For me, except for the search work there's no difference between the dogs I train for PP and for police work.

Man, I wish some of you guys were closer to me! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> It sucks not having a lot of resources nearby.

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you would be much better off with a sport dog that is taught to bark on cue and act aggressively by command. From your posts and from what youve been writing, you need a sport dog, not a PP dog.

ok...maybe I'm confused now...

what are the MAJOR differences between PP dogs and the sports dogs?? I am working Luke in ASR (right now - looking for a SchH club) but even then the guys I have been working with made sure I understood that it wasn't to be taken lightly, how important it was to "keep up his training", and the expenses involved...now after reading some of these post I am a little confused...they also made sure I understood that it wasn't a 6-8 week training thing but a life-long commitment...otherwise in the wrong or inexperienced hands a dog could become a "handful"...they also focus on training ME just as much or more (at this point) than him...I'm almost house-broke now <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> (sorry - I couldn't resist)...

Do dogs that have training for PP vs Sports have different temperment and drives?

Also, I have heard people complain that the Sports dogs wouldn't take a "real" bite if their life depended on it...the group I am training with now doesn't seem to think this is acceptable for a dog...they work hard to train dogs that will not only excel at competition but "in the real world as well"...I thought that was one of the great things about them...is that asking too much of the dog??

Sorry for my confusion...i just want to make sure I understand EVERYTHING i can...

It is MY understanding that what has been called a "sport dog" in Michael's post is a dog that simply lunges to the end of the leash and barks on command. This dog is not taught any kind of bitework - it's simply taught to put on a good show in order to be a deterrant.

I do not really want this type of dog. I want a dog that 1)Knows how to bite, 2)Will bite on command and release and return to me on command, and 3)Will be able to bite and not become afraid or timid if the suspect fights back. Yes, most people WILL be deterred by a barking dog, but what about those people who aren't? The barking dog does no good.

Again, the reasons I'd like to train Gypsy in PP are as follows:

1) My husband is in the Army. When/if he gets deployed, or otherwise has to leave me by myself at home, I want to feel safe knowing I have a foolproof security system. A gun, knife, or mace can be turned against you; your dog cannot. Even with an alarm system, it may take 30min. or longer for the police to get to my house. By then, I could have been raped, kidnapped, burgled, and/or killed. If I had a PP dog, then I would have the means to have the suspect safely under control when the police get there and can arrest him.

2) I would LOVE to compete in PSA trials and competitions. I think it would be a lot of fun not only for me (and my husband), but for Gypsy as well.

3) My husband just finished schooling to do gunsmithing. That means that if he works on guns/becomes a dealer of guns out of our home, our home MUST be secure. That means that both the entire house, including the basement, and garage MUST have a security alarm system. Again, if we have a PP dog, that's just one extra measure. The alarm can go off, we can give the dog a command to find the intruder and do a bark & hold until we can get to them. Then, if we have to, we can give the dog another command to either bite the person or just knock them to the ground and make them stay there.


The main thing is I think the training would be enjoyable for us all.

Jen, we have discussed sport dogs vs. PP dogs about nine zillion times already - you might want to use the search function and view some of those threads, which would give you a good idea on where most of the regular posters stand on that issue.

Posting quotes or questions that you have from those older threads that weren't answered would be the way to go. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Kristen, It looks like you have come a long way with Gypsy in a short amount of time..with your new trainer.Be very careful how you proceed with her..or you might lose what you have gained. Candace

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Jen, we have discussed sport dogs vs. PP dogs about nine zillion times already

I apologize...I usually check previous post first...it's been one of those days...thanks Will... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />