I think if you can understand and train dogs like some of the more experienced people on this board(not me), having a couple of dogs that live together is doable. The breed and goals of the trainer probably have a lot to do with it too. I have seen many multiple dog homes however where you could easily pick out the alpha, a bunch dogs (squabbles) in between, and then of course the one with its tail always tucked. How would you like to try and make a good working dog out of the one with its tail always tucked? Or one thats allowed to build on his rank drive for that matter? You would do better with both if they didn't have that going on in their lives. This is the reason I don't like to leave them together.

Jason, if I may make a rebuttal...are you saying that you can't make a working dog out of the omega? I highly beg to differ. The omega in my dog pack is actually the most defensive when it comes to protection work. Granted it came as quite a surprise to us when we had him evaluated, but he has a stronger drive than our alpha dog. Unfortunately we haven't had the time or resources to pursue the training much further, but don't always discount the omega as an inferior dog in every aspect. They're interactions with other dogs and with humans can be quite different. He will take a lesser role when the alpha is present, but alone I would take him as my protector any day! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Beth,

What I'm saying is that I do believe that dogs living together can effect certain individuals in different ways as to what kind of a working dog they will become.

I think your odds of doing better with each individual increase by keeping them
separated, when not being supervised. This way, factors other than dog
training don't enter into the picture.

What I mean to say is that an omega should be allowed and encouraged to keep his tail up. Likewise, an alpha does not need to be so sure of his place in line. I think separation goes a long way towards both.

I guess to each his own <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I've always raised my dogs together so I can't be quite as objective, but I can compare it to our breeder and trainer who uses kennels and I notice no difference in their drives or workability from a training standpoint. The training should always be done one on one with the dog anyway, so there is no competition in that respect.

I lost track of this thread over the holidays, and wanted to get back and thank you all for the advice. Richard, your last post made it very clear what is needed; and Geoff, that was a lot of good information.

I'm beginning to work more with the bitch to firm up her obedience. I think that's key.

BTW, I started walking them on a single leash last weekend (using a Y-connector) because the one left behind screams and howls non-stop in protest against such unfairness. It was funny to watch them get used to the yoke: at first they would try to jump over it or each other, which produced an instant tangle. Within 5 minutes they figured it out, and walks are much easier now. For one thing, they don't "snipe" at each other as they do when walked on separate leashes by two people.

Dave,

Teaching them to walk together is a good idea, the Y attachment is not. There are multiple problems with this device. For instance if for some reason the two of them got into a fight they are tied together and it is very difficult to get them apart and requires sticking your hands in the buisness end of the dogs. Another problem is that it is difficult to correct one with out correcting the other. This is confusing to the dog that didn't require correction. Another problem would be a fight from an outside source, you may have to release one dog to get control of the situation and/or to prevent the dominant dog from dragging the other into the fight.

What I do for this is use 2 leashes, one for each dog. It has advantages, first you can correct the dogs individually. If you need to you can start with a leash in each hand to make this easier. If the dogs start to fight you can seperate them with out releasing them from a leash. A definte advantage. By keeping the leashes in seperate hands they are less likely to tangle. We have had instances in training of leashes or "saftey" collars catching 2 dogs on one snap. The fight is bad and hard to break up. The dogs think it is the other dog attempting to hold them and even dogs that won't normally fight do.

Richard--

I've thought about some of those consequences, esp. the case of another dog attacking, which is my biggest worry.

Knowing my dogs' personalities, I consider a serious fight between them quite unlikely, although I suppose it can't be ruled out. As I mentioned, they actually behave better toward each other when linked than when apart.

The inability to separate the corrections can be a problem, although I've found that it is possible to correct one and not the other if you angle the leash correctly. However, these walks are not so much training exercises as sensory stimulation, and I'm mostly concerned with making sure they don't pull on the leash (forge). For that purpose there's no problem, since if one is pulling and the other not, the correction is felt only by the one pulling, and if they're both pulling equally, then they both feel it.

Anyway, I find I can't manage two leashes because their walking "styles" are so different. Oka pretty much heads in a straight line, with detours to mark trees and such, while Luna zigzags constantly. The result is a horrible tangle and I have to spend too much time untangling them. Perhaps this situation will improve as Luna gets better trained, but right now it's impossible.

I value your experience, though, and if you have any suggestions that would make two leashes more manageable, I'd appreciate hearing them.

Thanks!

Dave,

The dogs need to heel while you are walking them. This is why the best bet is to get them obedience trained first and then train them to work together.

Richard,I'm asking this question out of curiosity and not trying to be a smartass.How do you make two dogs heel?
BTW I want to thank you. Because of one your post I finally learned what kind of breed played Old Yeller.I was doing a search on Black Russian Terriers and the breed above it
was a Black Mouth Cur.Old Yeller was a yellow black mouth cur.

Milt

Milt,

Once the dogs know how to heel it is just a question of having them heel side by side. You use 2 leashes and coccet them for being out of position. The biggest problem is teaching the outside dog not to crowd. The dog on the outside is going to attempt to get into a normal heeling position closer to your side. The other option is to teach one to heel on the right and the other on the left.

If they are heeling side by side, have the more dominant dog on the inside.