Re: Titled Giant Schnauzers and Breeders
[Re: Lewis R. Fronk ]
#43574 - 11/08/2002 12:23 AM |
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What dog has the most similar temperament to the Giant Schnauzer?
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Re: Titled Giant Schnauzers and Breeders
[Re: Lewis R. Fronk ]
#43575 - 11/08/2002 09:13 AM |
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The only breed that is really close to the Giant is the Black Russian Terrier. Second would probably be Rotts. With the BRT the temperament is VERY similar except for the Rank issues and the BRT is a little slower to react to things. I think the thresholds are very similar, but the BRT seems to claim less territory and is less of a barker. That changes if they are with another dog. They will then react to what the other dog is doing.
With both the BRT and the Giant the way you raise and socialize them is critical. Both have a tendancy to dominate everything and can become difficult to manage if they aren't properly controled and socialized so that they accept people you tell them to accept. Both will do what you want if you impress on them early that they have to follow your lead. Of the 2 breeds I think that the BRT is probably easier for a new owner, but both have some difficulties if you are not used to dealing with this level of dominance and aggression. The easiest explanation for me is that as puppies and young adults the Giant is more likely to direct aggression towards it's primary handler, the BRT is more likely to direct the aggression towards others.
The biggest difference between Rotts and the Giant that I have seen is that with the Giant once things are settled they stay settled. Rotts seem to challange for a longer period in their life. Both can be dog aggressive but the Rott will tend to carry that longer. Rotts also seem to be more consistant in challanging the handler in areas other than just rank issues. They can be very hard headed and you have to pay closer attention to what they are doing. With the Giant once they get it they get it and are willing to follw the rules more consistantly.
If you can't be a Good Example,then You'll just have to Serve as a Horrible Warning. Catherine Aird. |
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Re: Titled Giant Schnauzers and Breeders
[Re: Lewis R. Fronk ]
#43576 - 11/08/2002 10:40 AM |
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So who would be considered a reasonable owner/handler of these breeds. Do you need to have prior breed expereience? Prior sport/pp training with these or other breeds? Or just prior experience owning and training dogs in general? That's where I'm coming from. Have had dogs all my life, but never involved with bite training (don't know if that's a politically correct phrase anymore). I am now trying to learn as much as I can about ring sports and pp, with the hope of getting involved one day. I have been focused primarily on learning about some of the lower shed breeds (Giant, BRT, Airedale, Bouvier) as my wife will not accept a high shed breed in the house. As a novice to ring sports do I have a reasonable shot of getting a Giant or a BRT? Or any of the working line sport dogs for that matter?
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Re: Titled Giant Schnauzers and Breeders
[Re: Lewis R. Fronk ]
#43577 - 11/08/2002 07:06 PM |
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Minaldo,
The things that I think are important with both Giants and BRT's is the ability to read dogs. In most cases the breeds are fairly "honest". They will provide indications that they are going to do something. There is usually an opportunity to identify what is going to happen and do something about it first.
I am not a big advocate of getting in a physical confrontation with your own dog. What I have always made it a point to do is get the obedience on the dog as soon as possible (I start working on it the day the dog comes home) and use obedience commands to re-direct the dogs attention. That will often re-establish your control with out a physical confrontation. It doesn't always work and you may need to establish control physically. If it comes to that you have to win the confrontation.
The other critical thing that you have to be able to do is to deal with the problems unemotionally when it happens. If you show fear or anger you will lose eventually. That is much easier said than done. A 90 pound Giant is an impressive sight when he is coming after you. If he thinks that he can frighten you he will use that against you. It also really hurts when they get a hold of you. It is hard not to get emotional about it.
With the BRT the tendancy is more for the dog to go off on someone else. There are some themes in the dogs and what will set them off. But you need to watch them as they start to mature as the signs are subtle when they are getting to that point. They will respond if you have taught them a command to leave something alone.
With both breeds you are much better off to teach them a command that it is OK. Than to try and react to what they are doing. If you just react to what they are doing they seem to tend to limit the reaction to the one person at that time. If you teach them the OK command you can tell them BEFORE they go off on someone. If you wait you have to react very quickly and may not be able to react quickly enough.
If you can't be a Good Example,then You'll just have to Serve as a Horrible Warning. Catherine Aird. |
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Re: Titled Giant Schnauzers and Breeders
[Re: Lewis R. Fronk ]
#43578 - 11/08/2002 08:33 PM |
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Hello All:
Very good comments on this thread. As an owner of a Giant/RS, this is what I would tell prospective owners. It would be best if someone has had previous knowledge with a working breed. I don't think they are a very good beginners dog. Also, they mature very slowly, so you have to keep that in mind when progressing during training for the handler, the helper, the TD and the dog. A Giant/RS won't do something just because you want him to, especially after he figures it out, you have to keep training, up, positive and make it a constant new fun game as they get bored very easily. I never had problems with social aggression or handler aggression with my dogs, but dog aggression is a big problem and they seems to slip into avoidance when they are in that mode, so be prepared to give a level 9-10 correction. Also, they are very good at finding the weak link in the family. For instance I always have a drag line on him in the house, my wife doesn't do this (when I'm not at home). My wife will always try to walk up on my young male and grab him by the collar and put him outside, etc. Then it becomes a fight with her (i.e he just mouths her and nips at her, because he knows when he does this she gets scared of him and doesn't correct him). But I suggested that she call him, get his attention, give him a sit or down command and then guide him outside or to his kennel, etc. If there are inconsistancies like this in training IMHO, the Giant/RS will exploit them immediately.
Hope this helps,
Train Smart,
Brandon
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Re: Titled Giant Schnauzers and Breeders
[Re: Lewis R. Fronk ]
#43579 - 11/09/2002 03:14 AM |
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A very good friend of mine was a police and military dog trainer in Russia and the Ukraine and he really likes Giants. He said they were simliar in character to dobermanns. He said the best Giants came from DDR, Czech and also Russian lines. He put many of them through ZKS titles in Russia.
He also has had alot to do with BRT's. His opinion is they are good dogs with alot of aggression. Not much trainability though.
But he maintains that the most aggressive and serious dogs in Russia are by far the Caucosian (SP?) Ovcharka's.
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Re: Titled Giant Schnauzers and Breeders
[Re: Lewis R. Fronk ]
#43580 - 11/09/2002 07:25 AM |
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Chris,
Trainability is what both the BRT and Giant have really going for them. Both breeds are very intelligent and bore easily. As a result they are not breeds that you can "drill and kill" on excercises. I have had much more sucess teaching both breeds 3-4 commands at a time rather than just working one at a time. With either breed if you bore then they will find something they can do to keep it interesting.
If you can't be a Good Example,then You'll just have to Serve as a Horrible Warning. Catherine Aird. |
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Re: Titled Giant Schnauzers and Breeders
[Re: Lewis R. Fronk ]
#43581 - 11/09/2002 05:24 PM |
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I didnt mean that Giants lacked trainability, they don't. He likes them alot to train. But he says that the BRT's are not as trainable as a GSD or Dobe. They can be very stubborn. I guess it all depends on what lines you may have also. This guy has trained dozens and dozens of them for the military over there. There can be rank problems with them as well.
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Re: Titled Giant Schnauzers and Breeders
[Re: Lewis R. Fronk ]
#43582 - 11/09/2002 05:29 PM |
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Don't get me wrong, he likes BRT's alot. He talks about them proudly as they are a native Russian breed.
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Re: Titled Giant Schnauzers and Breeders
[Re: Lewis R. Fronk ]
#43583 - 11/09/2002 08:13 PM |
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I they are different to train than a GSD or Mal. It is harder to keep their interest and they are very stubborn until you get across to them what you want. As I said before they are different to train, not more or less difficult, but different. If you try and train them the way you would a Mal or GSD you will get very frustrated with them.
If you can't be a Good Example,then You'll just have to Serve as a Horrible Warning. Catherine Aird. |
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