Why do you need to cross the show line dogs with the working line dogs? That's my question. Why would you want to water down the wine, baby? What is wrong with finding working line dogs with good overall confirmation and breeding them? Does anybody feel that the SV trends in show confirmation offer the best type of GSD? I sure as hell don't. And the AKC- HELL NO. We need to affect a (impossible IMO) change in the judging of these orgainizations or start our own organization. -RICHARD

I am not even going to attempt to tackle the Schutzhund problem. Schutzhund is what you make of it. You can train for realism or you can train for prey points. (if you know how) Either way you can get a title. Not too many people use those titles as the measure of a dogs total worth. They usually like to see the dog in action. I sure do.

72 that is pretty cool. How many traffic tickets does he have accredited to his name? Bet you can't answer that one, huh?

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
You guys do know I like all of you right? I mean, I wouldn't want anybody to get p.o.ed and kill my ratings or anything. They are sooo important. Just look at Richard, everybody listens to him. (*****) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey Richard not all of us have NAPD in our backyards. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

VanCamp, we just need to redefine show pretty <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> . A little more square, a little less extreme, and no big fluffy coats. Then breeding "pretty" functional dogs wouldn't be as hard. I don't find Auster's conformation overly appealing, many working dogs look better than she does.

I know that my opinions aren't popular, but after having Auster put a hole in my bathtub with her hock I wish she had less angulation. The only purpose it serves her is to help the tub repair man make a living. I'm just glad we didn't have to remodel the whole bathroom in order to replace the tub. And being a blonde dog, she still tries to jump in the tub while I'm not watching!

For me - if the dog is working, it doesnot matter what kind of conformation he/she has unless e.g. a long/short coat is an obstacle and would prevent from working in hot or real cold conditions (for show and judge paper still matters unfortunatelly). If SH together with breeding can close the gap between real and sport and become more street life, it would redefine show dog into real working dog. Strife for life is always present in no-matter what we are doing with the animal, if we change one of the conditions of its existence the animal will change to adapt to them. The only quesiton is whether we are staying true to what Max Fon Stefanitz had in mind for them. But for sure he would not have predicted the spectre that those dogs are doing now. The world is changed may be it is time for dog to change too - stale was not good and will never be good, for me personally.

I did not make that statement about all show dogs, I said there is a problem when a dog gets his III title when everyone knows he shouldn't. By the way, I own a show dog, his grandsire is the World Sieger and 2 time USA Sieger Lasso. But I wont' tell you all the comments I have heard from Germans who have seen this dog work. And my dog himself could never do schutzhund. That doesn't mean all show dogs are like that. But if a dog is laughed at the clubs, yet passed for his III there is a problem with the whole process.

I was just wondering, what SH can do to the dog, why such a big difference between sport and work for them if you are saying that your dog can never do it.

I am not sure what you mean by that question. The reason I say my dog can't do it because he doesn't have the nerves for it. He would go into avoidance. He lacks defense and he is intimidated by men. The only reason my dog would bite anyone would be out of fear. He is a great dog otherwise but I recognize the fact that he doesn't have the proper drives. He has lots of prey, is a very social animal, has no problems with gun shots, surfaces etc. But since the age of 7 months he has shown avoidance with men.

Is there an NAPD group in Phoenix? I was a member of the Valley SCH Club while I was still stationed in PHX. We had a good time. It was membered by predominately work oriented folks with little or no interest in the conformation aspect. It was quite different from the club I came from. Good group of people still.

I think that mixing of Working and High lines in needed at this stage, to find the "golden middle" because our beloved breed, because of financial and political influences, has become so greatly polarized. Granted that there are a few kennels out there, Emsbogen, Seeblick, Tiekerhook etc, that are producing excellent working dogs that, coincidentally, are good looking. In so far as watering down the wine, I prefer to look at it as fine tuning an already outstanding product. If the temperment and conformation evaluations could be measured numerically instead of by the subjective and interpretive system now in place, there will always be the polarizartion in any breed.

I am not sure what you mean by that question. The reason I say my dog can't do it because he doesn't have the nerves for it. He would go into avoidance. He lacks defense and he is intimidated by men. The only reason my dog would bite anyone would be out of fear. He is a great dog otherwise but I recognize the fact that he doesn't have the proper drives. He has lots of prey, is a very social animal, has no problems with gun shots, surfaces etc. But since the age of 7 months he has shown avoidance with men.
My guy is only 8 month and we just started to train him on his prey drives. It is difficult to say what will be of him later, so far he is o'key except the fact that the trainer when he was testing him has pushed him behind my back with a sleeve. I hope that's was just the first time and with proper training he will overgrow that and try stand his ground not to avoid it (he saw the sleeve and whip for the first time - so I am attributing to that.)That's why I was asking how steady the dog should be to do SH and real work (his nerves and temperament).

Gordon,

There are kind of 2. One is the AZ chapter that sponsers the trials. The other one is a competeing trainer that can't get together enogh to sponsor a trial, so they just come to ours. Contact me privately and I can give you some details.

VanCamp,

it only takes 5 people to start a NAPD club and then you have to sponsor 1 trial a year. I like to travel so the more chapters there are the more excuses I will have to travel. It is advertising for my bitch for breeding, honest honey it isn't that I just want to drive around the country and play with the dog.

Great thread guys and even though Lauren you have a beautiful dog please get permission from Ed before posting a picture. Thanks.