Re: Working towards a Universal GSD ?
[Re: Sarah Ryan ]
#46539 - 07/04/2002 03:17 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 07-17-2001
Posts: 1496
Loc:
Offline |
|
Deanna,
The Mal is the prime example of what will happen if there isn't some serious thought about what is desirable in the GSD :rolleyes: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
If you can't be a Good Example,then You'll just have to Serve as a Horrible Warning. Catherine Aird. |
Top
|
Re: Working towards a Universal GSD ?
[Re: Sarah Ryan ]
#46540 - 07/04/2002 03:23 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 03-15-2002
Posts: 591
Loc: Southern Ontario
Offline |
|
Deanna, what's next.......a guide pig? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> :rolleyes:
They are supposed to be smarter than dogs. They have good food drive. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Actually, there is a pig named Fred doing agility in a local obedience club. He's a real crowd pleaser when the club does demos for various events.
|
Top
|
Re: Working towards a Universal GSD ?
[Re: Sarah Ryan ]
#46541 - 07/04/2002 03:24 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 07-16-2001
Posts: 908
Loc: Florida
Offline |
|
Alot of Mals are very hyper. I do not think that using Mals as an over-all program will work. But al least the Mal has not be destoyed by the show folk.
Anyway enough of that. This idea that all in one GSD is a nice thought but I cannot see most good PSD leading the blind around. With that said I think that most GSD should be able to do a dual purpose duty. It would depend on the dogs temperment though. There are dogs that I have seen that are dual trained and function just fine. But they are also not working in an airport everyday, thier primary purpose is patrol, and maybe a few house searches or cars for drugs. This idea that you need to have a rank dog to work is not true. But I beleive that you need a dog with a little hardness in him, not a dog that is too handler soft. Even a low medium temperment dog is going to run into trouble with most new handlers, if the team does not have proper instruction. If you go to a hard temperment dog, then that will give you trouble too if there are rank issues. I think the goal for breeding should be medium hard temperment or level 7 or 8, which ever scale you prefer for breeders to produce. The problem is that most level 7 dogs do not produce this type of dog. And even if they do the raising of the dog has alot of influence in the dogs temperment. The GSD is a dog that requires hardness, an ability to go on even after an undesirable encounter or correction.
As far as the Universal Sieger goes, I think that with a ZTP type breeding system, this should replace the Sieger Show. You could still have the confirmation shows, but I think that this is the way to go. If it was forced onto the show people that there had to be a working requirment, a real Schutzhund Championship type trial, along with the show aspect, they would have no choice but to improve the working abilty in the high-line dogs. It would take time, but it could be done. There are a number of dogs that are show looking dogs, that are not crappers that could be used to improve the program. Would this make the show dogs into a real working GSD, I don't think so, but the gap would not be so far between.
|
Top
|
Re: Working towards a Universal GSD ?
[Re: Sarah Ryan ]
#46542 - 07/04/2002 03:26 PM |
Moderator
Reg: 10-27-2001
Posts: 2261
Loc: Eastern Maine
Offline |
|
Originally posted by Caniche:
Deanna, what's next.......a guide pig? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> :rolleyes:
They are supposed to be smarter than dogs. They have good food drive. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Actually, there is a pig named Fred doing agility in a local obedience club. He's a real crowd pleaser when the club does demos for various events. Hey that isn't a bad idea, if you get tired of them you can just eat them... Here BACON... Come Pok Chop! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
|
Top
|
Re: Working towards a Universal GSD ?
[Re: Sarah Ryan ]
#46543 - 07/04/2002 03:32 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 02-09-2002
Posts: 659
Loc:
Offline |
|
Well just when I try and put it the PC away I read something again that pulls me in, lol.
I'm with you. I was just joking before. I know it's sad Sarah to say that you can't breed for both but like everyone has said it seems to be a fact. I've heard several times that different breeders had tried this only to finally just breed for ability only, because it never worked out like they had planned. Also Sarah, it may be hard to believe, lol but we Americans aren't as mean as we act sometimes, we just often times say exactly what's on our minds. I hope everybody has a good July 4th. I would write some more on here but I got to go and I don't want to be hooked to jumping back on here, lol.
Cheers . . . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
|
Top
|
Re: Working towards a Universal GSD ?
[Re: Sarah Ryan ]
#46544 - 07/04/2002 03:40 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 09-26-2001
Posts: 706
Loc:
Offline |
|
Originally posted by stig:
A good conformation is important in a workingdog, if it should be able to work hard for a long period of time. But it´s only the structure of the body that matters, not coulors or small details that not affects workingability. But why introduce showlines to better conformation? They have even worser structure than the workinglines, there is no need for the GSD to look like it often does in the showring, but also in many workinglines. Look at the mal or Dutch sheperd, that is the right conformation for a workingdog of sheperdogtype. just one thing with the comparison of the Dutchie/Mal to a GSD. The Dutchies & Mals are considered "square" dogs in their breed standards, meaning they are as long as they are tall (1-1). The GSD according to it's is to be longer than tall, an approximate ratio is 1-.85, meaning if the dog was 24in tall then it should be 28.25in long. And we're not talking show extremes, but ones that meet the standard. If you bred show extreme to work extreme, you'd probably get a lot of ugly dogs with no drives!
Mike Russell
BANNED FROM THE LEERBURG BOARD |
Top
|
Re: Working towards a Universal GSD ?
[Re: Sarah Ryan ]
#46545 - 07/04/2002 06:57 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 07-11-2001
Posts: 188
Loc:
Offline |
|
At the guidedog school where I worked for a zillion years, we bred for sound body, sound mind and work ethic. We liked the square body type of the east german dogs..with the work ethic and ease of handling of the old west german herding/working lines. Having a good work ethic was very important. Some of our foundation stock came thru Drigon, Korbelbach, Bunglow, and from the east, Bodo Grafental. The dogs that we picked for the guides were the middle of the road dogs.. the higher end dogs went for police and sar work.. and the lower drive went for family pets.. In a given litter we might find dogs to fit all areas. Sometimes a pup raised for a guide would be to drivey.. and need a career change.. these would then go to Police or SAR handlers. They needed to be tough enough to make it through a rigourous training program then to handle mistakes made by blind handlers..but not so tough as to "challange" the handler.
Jody
|
Top
|
Re: Working towards a Universal GSD ?
[Re: Sarah Ryan ]
#46546 - 07/04/2002 07:15 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 11-28-2001
Posts: 3916
Loc:
Offline |
|
Just one thing: Ask a few REAL police dog handlers and they WILL tell you that their BEST dogs do have the temperament to lead the blind as well as take out a criminal. YES in the same dog! This is why it is so hard to breed the ideal GSD because the mix of drives is soooo hard to balance.
|
Top
|
Re: Working towards a Universal GSD ?
[Re: Sarah Ryan ]
#46547 - 07/04/2002 07:21 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 07-16-2001
Posts: 908
Loc: Florida
Offline |
|
The Key word being "Best".
|
Top
|
Re: Working towards a Universal GSD ?
[Re: Sarah Ryan ]
#46548 - 07/04/2002 07:30 PM |
Moderator
Reg: 10-27-2001
Posts: 2261
Loc: Eastern Maine
Offline |
|
Originally posted by Michael Taylor:
The Key word being "Best". Not only the keyword, but how do they define that "best"... Most apprehensions/finds or most social/Public relations dog...
|
Top
|
When purchasing any product from Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. it is understood
that any and all products sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. are sold in Dunn
County Wisconsin, USA. Any and all legal action taken against Leerburg Enterprises,
Inc. concerning the purchase or use of these products must take place in Dunn
County, Wisconsin. If customers do not agree with this policy they should not
purchase Leerburg Ent. Inc. products.
Dog Training is never without risk of injury. Do not use any of the products
sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. without consulting a local professional.
The training methods shown in the Leerburg Ent. Inc. DVD’s are meant
to be used with a local instructor or trainer. Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. cannot
be held responsible for accidents or injuries to humans and/or animals.
Copyright 2010 Leerburg® Enterprises, Inc. All rights reserved. All photos and content on leerburg.com are part of a registered copyright owned by Leerburg Enterprise, Inc.
By accessing any information within Leerburg.com, you agree to abide by the
Leerburg.com Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.