I still believe that a test for breeding is needed, something to mirror the ZTP of the old East German Korung. A title that could be attained in a day of two testing the animals breed worthyness, not the trainers abilty. I think that this is the direction we need to go for the working GSD.

Michael, such a test are already exsisting, it´s developed in sweden and are now also used in norway and denmark, top SCH-handlers in germany has also showed a great intresst in this test, and if my info is correct they are going to use it in germany to. The purpose of the test is to see the inborn talents in a dog, a litter or different lines, in situations that aren´t trained, so you could make the right breedingdecision. What is intressting with this test is that all testresult have been analyzed by well known geneticans to see how different reactions are passed on from parents to a litter, how much the influence of the stud or the bitch is, and other evaluations, the result with over 11000 dogs of different breeds shows that there is a strong hereditary of many reactions like fear,temperament,preydrive and so on.

It´s intressting that tested parents and offspring show similar reactions in many of the test situation, there could be some difference in a litter, but you could see which dog that has the best reactions and thereby his breedingvalue. This test combined with a title in some of the protectionsports gives a good view over the quality of a breedingdog, especially when his offsprings are tested you could see if he passes on his inborn talents.
A sucessfull huntingdog breeder once said a good thing about breeding.
When we have decided to keep a puppy in a litter, we always keep two. They get the same uppbringing and equal time in the woods. The one who starts hunting first are kept, and the other one are sold. It´s possible that the sold puppy gets more titles, dependent on that his owner has good huntingareas or hunts alot, but it´s the dog that starts to hunt first that has the best inborn talents and thereby is the best breedingdog

Regards

I still believe that a test for breeding is needed, something to mirror the ZTP of the old East German Korung. A title that could be attained in a day of two testing the animals breed worthyness, not the trainers abilty. I think that this is the direction we need to go for the working GSD.

Such a test, in conjunction with a breeding program/registry is long over due in America. If the United SchH clubs of America would reject being nothing but an ugly step child of the SV, and step up to the plate with such a program, regardless of who accepts it beyond its own membership the GSD here would be done a great favor. Call your RD's and let the Breed advisory committee know if this idea is one you would run with. Be vocal about it. I've said it for at least 10 years now but one voice means little.

Stig, does your info. tell you that this will be formally taken on by the SV? ANd if so when? I have heard rumor to this, but nothing solid. I have also heard that it will never happen in my lifetime, and I have many good years left I hope.

This info I have read on a site belonging to a GSD breeder and top SCH-competor here in sweden, placing 3rd in wusv as best result. When he been in germany he had spoken to highly experienced dog-handlers how we test a dogs character in sweden, and they have shown a big interesst that has lead to that the description of the test have been translated to german, and have been very appreciated by the germans. I had tried to reach this guy to get more info about this, but he wasn´t home. But I read at another place that this test are going to be "exported" to germany, but exactly when and under which organization I don´t know, but I guess it shouldn´t bee so far away. If someone understands german or swedish, you could read about this guys thoughts about the benefits about such test combined with SCH-training to use as a breedingtool for creating a better GSD. Look at, "mentalitet"
http://www.kustmarken.se/index.html

Kevin posted: "Such a test, in conjunction with a breeding program/registry is long over due in America. If the United SchH clubs of America would reject being nothing but an ugly step child of the SV. . ."

Hell yes! I'm in full agreement, BUT. . .

The politics of these organizations are constricting any possiblity of growth or change. So I'll keep dreaming. . .

Kevin, I belive Itor is a very good dog that has the traits that I like in a dog. He has been in the BSP, won the DPO in the US and is the personal dog of the most high profile trainer in the world at the moment. Is this dog been bred to in Germany that you know of? If not then it may be a sign of where the Germans are headed with their working lines.

Cris, I do not believe Itor has been bred at any time in his life, unless it was done recently, as I posted this question a while ago.
Speaking with a friend of mine, it is becoming harder to train over there. There is not enough intrest in Schutzhund. My friend said that there is a need to get younger people in the sport, as the people in it are middle-aged and retired folks. There is nothing wrong with that but his concearn is that there is not enough new faces in Schutzhund. He has found a few people that are young to help them along, but not in numbers. What he did say was that there was some good young decoys, that were coming along for trial work, but the intrest in learning how to train is lacking. He also said that while he has no problem with having a good decoy, there is a shortage over-all for training decoys.
On the flip-side of the coin, we are starting to see lower points in the big trials in Germany. No longer are we seeing 10 or 12 V ratings in the bigger trials. This could mean one of two things though; one being that the judging is getting harder, and sharper, or the dogs are really declining in quality, and there really is not that many good dogs out there. I think it is a little of both.
Through the grape-vine I have heard that either it is going to vote, or has been put out to vote that in order to get papers from USA you only need a B title and a G rating in confirmation. This will not help with the quaility of working dogs, only the profit margin. Maybe it will help people like Ed use the registry, if he would so desire and people like him able to breed in the numbers that he does, but it can also allow the show-line guy to breed just as easliy, and the same situation that is with the AKC coltivate, in USA,just at a slightly higher level. It will still come down to the breeder's credibilty for
one to decide if that breeder's dog is a worth while investment.
.

Itor was bred a few weeks ago. I don't know any details but others on this board may.

No longer are we seeing 10 or 12 V ratings in the bigger trials. This could mean one of two things though; one being that the judging is getting harder,

In 1999 as i watched the judging at the Bundesseiger i realized it was very very hard judging. Critical as can be. A little off in the barking and the chief judege wacked an entire catagory off the top from V to SG. I was competing in the police side of the field and am quite grateful that the pen wasn't as sharp as on the sport side.
Ed was there as well and we talked about how strict the judging was and felt it good for the sport. It doesn't do any good to talk about improvement in the breed but action must follow. It was the 100th anniversary of the SV and quite an eye opener for me as far as the direction and complexity of the SV. A very political organization.

Cris, I do not believe Itor has been bred at any time in his life, unless it was done recently, as I posted this question a while ago.

It hasn't been that long ago that Itor was kkl'd so his breeding career was not able to be started until recently. Also, Bernard lives in about the most sparcely populated area of Germany I've ever seen and there won't be a lot of people traveling to breed over there as there is here in the US. It just isn't done.