If she won't cop to it, I will.

What the hell is this aversion to "bribery"??? I find it funny that you would even use that term. How about a better term, such as positive reinforcement?? Ever heard of that? It is a good thing for fixing problems with fear and learned negative associations. In fact I would go so far as to say it may be the only way.

You might get Fido into the truck with force, but he sure isn't going to like it EVER and will start to pucker up the second he thinks he is going to get near that vehicle. That's a picture of a well trained and happy dog, pet or working, ears back with his tail stub nearly up his own butt, shaking and whining.

Jacob wrote:"But don't take my word for it, Throw a big "Raw" steak in the back of the little toyota truck and let the dog tell you if his hips hurt."

Whats really funny is right here you go on to say toss a steak into the truck and see if the dog is lame, obviously you think he would spring right in? WOW, imagine that!! NO -F-ING WAY! LOL

Whats with all this bribery, just force the little bastards to do what you want, thats the way to train dogs. . . hell with all this bribe stuff. Thats for puzzys. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ok, dog trainer, how do you teach the position?

Why don't you give a play by play of how exactly you would do this. (or solve this problem)

Why make references to skill and other words, such as teach, without telling us how or what the skill is?

Maybe then I'll understand what you mean. Maybe I've got it all wrong?

 Quote:

Originally posted by Jacob Guajardo:
Why is it we always look to the treat for the answer rather then our own skills?

But skills don't just translate to physical power/force/pain. Skills should include brain power - train SMARTER, not harder. If a dog's avoiding out of fear, as this one obviously is, you countercondition him to see it as a good place to be and, in a no time flat, he wants to go everywhere with you. Your first step is "teach position". We agree. Since the dog hasn't been taught to jump up in the truck yet, why would you skip this step and go straight to "correct for lack of correct position"?

Van camp : I need a deposit on your credit card before I teach you anything. JK!

But thank you for your sarcastic offer

But a little reminder you did this to me when I responded to a cop and a kennel problem.
And even though I spelled it out and the police officer had success with the technique. you still took a cheap shot at it. Once bitten...yada yada yada.

So if you are serious, I will explore the area of object orientation/socilization and how to over come this so called projected fear through work.

Have a great weekend Jacob

Well here I go, not being a dog trainer, SchH handler/trainer or even very smart.

HANKY, take your dog to someone that has a normal pick up truck. See what results are obtained.

Problem #1 is that the dog has too little room to enter the truck.

Problem #2 the dog has had a bad experiences in your truck.

Problem #3 you have not taught him to jump into a truck the proper way(any way that he likes is proper) Ha! Ha!

Problem #4 he may just be to damn lazy to want to jump into the truck.

A not too humane method for getting dogs into the back of a pickup truck

Do not do this with a truck that is above normal height.

1-Place wide flat collar on dogs neck.
2-Use six foot lease attached to flat collar/attached to your dog
3-you get in the back of the truck bed
4-you grab the leash at the opposite end from the dog
5-tell dog to load up(what ever command you want him ot obey)
6-pull him into the back of the truck /praise him when he's in the bed of truck/give treat to him and yourself for getting him into truck
7-Repeat this several times.

This has worked with dogs that have had no training whatsoever. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Like I posted, sometimes you have to be hard to get the dog to do what you want, if not let him decide what he wants.

THIS WILL WORK IF DOG IS PRAISED AND GIVEN TREATS FOR COMPLYING!!!

Hanky,this is not a CLICKER type method, and I know many will think it cruel and harsh treatment. IT will work, most times a dog will jump into the truck when the tailgate is dropped on their own. This too can cause a prioblem, we can solve that problem later!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Lee this is what I'm stuck on:

The original post read:"My rotti always makes me pick him up to get him in the truck. I know he can make the jump cuz hes done it before, but everytime I lead him to the rear of the truck he sorta just lays down/pulls away."

The owner admits the dog understand his intent.

However, when the dog shows "fear"
the owner praises the dog and picks him up?????

Who is training who here.
you said it was not a dominance issue
but yet it reads as if the dog is making the decision and not the owner?

Dog says:"NO Dad I told you I want to be picked up everytime we get in your old noisy truck"
If you don't pick me up I'm gonna throw a fit and lay down right here in the parking lot."

Jacob, what do you think of my not too dog friendly method??

This is used with hunting hounds with great sucess!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Well, I think it's putting the cart before the horse to assume that the dog is just being a punk, without ruling out some other cause.

My 4yo Labrador has never been one to just jump into the back of my station wagon. When I got him at 1.5yo, he would stand up with his front paws on the back, and I'd pick up his hind end and place him in. I worried about his hips, so I had him xrayed, and his hips were just about perfect. So, I continued to work on getting him to jump in on his own, with no help from me. Used lots of positive reinforcement for jumping in. Treated it like a behavior problem.

A year later, I found out that he had a ruptured ACL, and he had to have a very expensive surgery with a very long and intensive recovery. Another year later, I noticed a limp (it was so subtle that even when I pointed it out to other people, they never saw it, but my instincts told me something was going on) and had his elbows, shoulders, and spine xrayed. Shoulders were fine. Spine was fine. But in his right elbow, he had a very noticeable and pretty severe deformity. From the looks of it, he's probably had it this whole time, since basically what happened is that during growth, his coronial process didn't develop properly, and is malformed.

The likelihood that the Rott that started this thread is in pain is not remote. These conditions are fairly common. To treat him like a punk teenager who is giving you the finger is completely unfair UNTIL a physical cause is ruled out. I would have every joint AND the spine xrayed, and THEN decide what approach you want to take. Remember that dogs have an incredibly high threshold for pain, and if they are doing something that they really enjoy, will probably not show you that they are hurting.

I hope your pooch is OK. Please let us know how the vet visit goes.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Jacob Guajardo:
Dog says:"NO Dad I told you I want to be picked up everytime we get in your old noisy truck"
If you don't pick me up I'm gonna throw a fit and lay down right here in the parking lot."

What if the dog is really saying "No Dad, it hurts me to jump like that."?

Jacob wrote:"So if you are serious, I will explore the area of object orientation/socilization and how to over come this so called projected fear through work."

I'm not asking for no reason. Lets have it.

How much more serious can I get?