I met a wonderful grad student at a Home Depot near the University of Maryland at College Park; with him he had a little Schnoodle pup. Now, I WILL attest to its non-allergenic fur. I have god-awful allergies and if I come within four feet of anything with fur my eyes swell, I can't breathe and I start sneezing uncontrollably. The little Schnoodle didn't even make me sniff. He was a cutie; he looked more like his Schnauzer half. But he got him from Michigan and paid almost $1,700.00 for the dog. I find it a shame. I can own dogs, it just takes me about two months to get used to their individual dander and fur. And then I'm fine. That feature alone is not worth the money.

As for this nonsense about "hybrid vigor." I completely understand their intentions here but you can achieve the same healthiness in purebred animals by using sound and healthy, tested dogs. A knowledgeable breeder and a competent vet staff help preserve breed integrity. I owned a GSD that was half wolf. She was healthy, magnificent, smart, loyal and absolutely beautiful; her babies would have made some phenomenal pets. My mother wanted to breed her and I fought it all the way. There are enough homeless puppies in this world. If the dog isn’t being bred to preserve and promote the breed it shouldn’t be bred at all. There is no need to breed mutts. There are more and more animals that die in shelters every year because of negligent people. I know it is harsh but this Labradoodle and Schnoodle business promote this kind of needless behavior.

Cripes,
Just how expensive is it to take an antihistamine/decongestant and treat a persons allergies that way? :rolleyes:

There are a lot of excellent, and fairly inexpensive allergy medications out today to treat that kind of problem. I'd think that over the ten or twelve year life span of a dog, you could take those medications and have the type of dog that you *want*.

And yes, I have allergies. And I have four cats, and five indoor dogs, plus usually three to six clients dogs in my kennel set up. I take a twice daily dose of medication as above, and life is sniffle free.

I teach basic obedience here in Licking Missouri, and I have to share this. I have two clients that have Labradoodles. This is a breed that has been around for some time, although they have just come into their own here in the United States. They have been breeding them in Australia for a long time. Both of my clients purchased them for different reasons. And not because of an allergy issue. they just liked the cross of the breed. The female client of mine was able to purchase hers fairly close to where we live, the male client of mine had his shipped in from California.
He paid close to a thousand for his male, and the dog was neutered before he was shipped.

I have to tell you the dogs are darling, and are a pleasure to work with. Here is some further information on the Labradoodle.

Labradoodle
Labradoodle - Origin
Labradoodles are a cross between the Standard Poodle and Labrador Retriever. Wally Cochran first started this cross breed in Australia in the 1970's. He was prompted to do this by a blind woman who suffered from allergies to dogs. The first mating between the Standard Poodle and Labrador Retriever was successful and produced three low allergy pups. This provoked a surge of Labradoodle breeders in Australia. But, as the first crosses continued, the results were inconsistent with some of the offspring being low shedding and allergy resistant while others were not. In the 1980's two research facilities (Tegan Park and Rutland Manor) were developed in Australia to further develop successful Labradoodles. Today both are successfully exporting Labradoodles all over the world to asthma and allergy sufferers. The Labradoodle Association of Australia Inc. has been formed to provide guidelines on breeding for the support to Labradoodle owners and fanciers worldwide.
Picture source:
Labradoodle Rutland Manor
Labradoodle - Sizes

Standard: Height: 21-24 inches; Weight: Female - 45-60 pounds; Male - 55-77 pounds.
Medium: Height: 18-23 inches; Weight; 40-55 pounds; Males being the larger.
Miniature: Height: 17 to 20 inches; Weight: 26-55 pounds; Males being the larger.
Labradoodle - Characteristics
The Labradoodle is known for its outstanding intelligence and trainability, low allergy coat, low to non-shedding coat and lack of doggie odor. They are slightly heavier than the Standard Poodle with strong front limbs. They are an overall balanced dog with a slightly longer than square build. They have three sizes: Standard, Medium, and Miniature. There are curly or wavy coats and they exhibit seven different colors: Black, Chalk, Creams, Apricot, Chocolate, Cafe au Lait and Silver. The coat should be about 4-6 inches in length. The Labradoodle's head is broad and their eyes are large, slightly round and set apart. Their nose is square and large. The tail is like a saber and should be low set.

Life Expectancy: Labradoodles tend to live for about 13-15 years.

SPs do have less "doggy" smell and not as much of a problem with dander. But that non-shedding coat can be a trap for pollen, dust, etc. that normal brushing (and even clipping) just won't get rid of. To have a completely allergy free coat you must bathe them regularly. I would think that any poo-cross with a more poodly coat would have to be treated the same. Dust and such is kept trapped in the coat. My SP is kept most months in a serviceable short clip, with labbie style ears. Though his coat length does vary with the season (especially winter) it's the bathing that keeps me from heading to the pharmacy (most of the time).
And yes, the Australians have been breeding labradoodles for a long time, maybe they have it more down pat than their counterparts in North America. I recently saw a doodle (golden), huge specimen, 95lb with a very tight poodly coat.

To those who are working toward "breed hood" I'd say more power to them. BUT most people breeding "doodles" of any variety are breeding them only because they sell for big $$$. They don't care about creating a breed and very rarely do you find anything but F-1s and as mentioned earlier, you never know what you are going to get. This is not a breed, this is a mutt. Now places like Rutland Mannor are trying to do this right. I don't have anything against new breeds. I do have a lot against people breeding for mixed breeds, calling them pure and pedigreed, and selling them for up to 3 G's!
I know someone who wants to breed Labradoodles. Why? Because he can get a lab for $100 and an S Poo for $250, breed them together and VOILA!!! $1500 puppies! Quite a turnover!
This is my problem with "doodles"

The sole purpose for breeding these animals is to create pets. There are millions of unwanted animals in shelters; most are pet-quality, 25% are purebred, and of those, many are breeds that don't incite much reaction from allergy sufferers.

In addition, you can bet a month's pay on the fact that most of the breeders involved in this chicanery aren't selecting for allergy-free or stable-temperament dogs. Thus, the breed's stated purpose is, more likely than not, a ripoff.

I would no sooner pay a nickel for one of these things than I would jump in front of a bus.

Dear Iain,

GSD have been my breed of choice since 1967, and I love the breed. I also have a darling JRT, that I love very much. I guess what it boils down to is DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

One does not have to enjoy a labradoodle, but I do not think that they deserve to be bashed either, Especially if you have never seen one or talked to people that have one. Or seen one work in obedience. They actually do very well.

Blessings To All,
Joyce

I didn't bash the dog-I am being critical of breeders who are unscrupulous about their standards and marketing. "Exotic" and "fad" dogs result in unsavory folks turning them out for profit only-and subsequently, genetic problems for the "breed".

I also don't have a problem with people breeding dogs-cacadoodles or otherwise. And I bet that there's a few of these hounds out there worth their salt. My point is that I can think of countless better things to do with $1,700 than throwing it at the nearest bandwagon passing by.

But then again, time will likely prove my point. In a year or two, you'll be able to go to a shelter and get a labradoodle for whatever it costs to spring the pooch from the clink. Last time I did that, it cost me $49 bucks. Great dog, though.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Elisabeth Barber:
To those who are working toward "breed hood" I'd say more power to them. BUT most people breeding "doodles" of any variety are breeding them only because they sell for big $$$. They don't care about creating a breed and very rarely do you find anything but F-1s and as mentioned earlier, you never know what you are going to get.

This shows a lack of understanding of cross breeding. F1 hybrids (first generation cross breeds) are more uniform than the subsequent few generations of back crosses. F1 hybrids also have more "hybrid vigor". There is no need to continue breeding cross breeds to cross breeds and there's nothing wrong with not having a goal to create a new breed.

The breeding of F1 hybrid working guide dogs has become increasingly common. The F1 hybrids are not bred, they go to working homes. F1 hybrid breeding is very common in the livestock world. But the pure breed dog world seems to be stuck in a time warp and shacked with obsolete 19th century Victorian notions of breed "purity"... and to heck with what genetics and practical experience has taught us.

I find it interesting that some apparently think it's OK for breeders to intentionally breed and sell pure breed dogs for the pet market but it's not OK to intentionally breed and sell mixed breed dogs for the pet market. What makes one of these dogs better than the other for the "job" they have... to be a good companion dog? For that matter, is either of these worse than those who INbreed for the show dog market and then sell their expensive and often unsound discards to the pet dog market?

Laura Sanborn

 Quote:

Originally posted by 1st Lt Iain Pedden:
The sole purpose for breeding these animals is to create pets. There are millions of unwanted animals in shelters; most are pet-quality, 25% are purebred, and of those, many are breeds that don't incite much reaction from allergy sufferers.

In addition, you can bet a month's pay on the fact that most of the breeders involved in this chicanery aren't selecting for allergy-free or stable-temperament dogs.

I don't know one way or another how carefully these "doodle" breeders are doing their breeding, and I'll bet you don't either. Probably like purebred dog breeding, they run the gamut from careful good breeders at one extreme to idiots at the other extreme.

However, it seems to me that you answered in your comments above part of the reason why someone might want a breed from the "doodle" and "poo" mixed breeds. At least you know what you're getting. I've had some great companion dogs from shelters but it's total crapshoot. Unless you get an adult dog (often with "problems" that's why he's at the shelter)... you often have no idea what sort of breed or mix of breeds went into that pup. And you can be pretty sure there weren't any health clearances on the parents.

We all preach that those who want a working dog should get a pup from a breeder who does health clearances, breeds for good temperament, yadda yadda. Yet we expect those who want a good companion dog to settle for mystery dogs from the shelter, or else take the rejects from other breeding programs or BYB pure breeds. I don't see anything wrong with folks intentionally breeding to make good companion dogs. I'd rather they make up a new "doodle" breed for that purpose than continue to turn more and more of our working dog breeds into pet breeds.

Laura Sanborn