Staci, Andres, and Jeff all have posted very well on this subject.

Your statement:

 Quote:

The point is I don't want him to be approached the wrong way by people who don't know how to handle my dog. He is a puppy and he plays like a puppy. Some little girl thought is was cute to run up to him and dangle her hand in front of him.

Is EXACTLY why most of us do socialize and train our dogs to have some level of dependablity in public. Because I KNOW (and so you've also posted) that I have little or no absolute control over what some people may do when they first approach my dog. Since I've had to come to grips with the fact I can't 'control' the world, I've chosen to focus my efforts on what I can effect and 'control' and that's the behavior and reaction of my pups when that meeting occurs. So that's why I socialize. That's why I let people pet my dog. And that's why I train my dogs to 'be polite'.

The advantage of me purposely socializing is that I can pay attention and focus and watch the way the meeting goes. I can tell them to please stay away from my dogs ears if they are sensitive, or wait until I get my dog to 'sit' so she won't jump up, or ask them to not surround and crowd my dog if that's an issue. I CAN maintain some level of control if I'm paying attention, and if my dog does start getting stressed, we leave.

I can get my pups so 'solid' in public that even I am amazed how little makes them upset and how much they can now just take in stride because it's all become a normal day out in the world with 'mom'.

Since we are pointing out names, you and Jeff are totally missing the point. I don't care if you pet the dog, just ask first.
Socialization is not the issue, Why is that so hard to get across? I don't need a lecture on socialization, just ask first.

If you don't mind me saying, since you pointed it out, Traci and Richard posted well, but Jeff insists that it's ridiculous for me to want people to ask to pet before they do.
I understand the purpose of socialization well. I also know a puppy can be set back by strange things people do, like the girl in Petsmart.
You mentioned that if your pups get stressed you leave. My initial statement was that I don't let my pup get stressed, because I set up the interactions by deciding who pets the pup. That's all I ask, is that people ask first. There is just no way you can call being grabbed by the tail a social interaction. If Sabian had bit her, I would have been hard pressed to correct him. I should have gone off on her for grabbing my dog from behind. That is what Tracy refers to as protecting your puppy.

I'm with Will now, I think this topic is useless too, but not for the same reasons as Jeff. As Richard pointed out, this is a board full of people who train protection dogs (the owner included) and some people think it's wrong for people to ask before they pet. It's a twisted world when people think I'm crazy for exercising caution.

I'm going off to find a productive conversation. I might evern go back to petsmart today and tell that salesgirl that she should have been wiser than to grab anyones dog from behind. Next time she should ask first.

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Excuse me, does he bite?

I don't think wanting people to ask to pet your dog is foolish. What I am saying is that people are foolish and will touch your dog regardless of your feelings on the subject. Most communities it's three bites your out. I am just saying that there are too many stupid people out there that will touch your dog from behind, especially at stupidmart the all time KING of slobbery pet loving idiots, for what you are asking to happen all the time. Wish it were some other way but it is not.

I'm a little lost on this thread. I'm currently laying the groundwork per Ed's article for my GDS 1.5 yrs who has been out of my care for 8 months. During this current period, I should not let others pet her? What about socializing with other dogs? Confused. Please offer a few ords of wisdom for this buffudled man. Thanks. Emilio

Emilio, if you go back and read the threads, you will be confused because there are different attitudes we are posting about. Some of us try to remain helpful and post our opinions and what has worked with our dogs. Others get a bit angry when they post and everyone doesn't agree with them.

It appears that if you want a dog for protection, you may not want to socialize them as much as some of the rest of us (I could be wrong about this and sure people will step in to correct <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. It's about your ultimate goals for your dog, your lifestyle, your dogs personality, and your training goals/experience.

I admit I do NOT do protection work with my dogs. I have 2 GSD's. I got them to primarily be additions TO my life. I can bring them anywhere and they are comfortable with strange dogs/people/crowds/sights/sounds. I can take them on all my vacations and they are fine with all family members (infants to seniors). They can stay in hotels, in my car, at my friends, with their dogs/cats/horses children. I tried to make sure they had the genetic background for this when I got the puppies, and I did all I can to socialize them to assure they would grow up to be happy, confident and secure adult dogs.

But they are NOT protection dogs. And I do not train them to be that way nor do I expect them to instinctively step up to the plate if something bad happened to me. But I didn't get them for protection dogs. If I did, I think you need to be a different socialization regime. Which I think is fine! And if your goal is to raise/train a dog the leerburg way, then follow the recommendations and suggestions in Ed's articles/tapes.

http://www.leerburg.com/qapup1.htm#socialization has one of Ed's responses to the 'socialization' confusion issue.

Clear as a bell now, right? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Sounded fine to me.

I've always wondered if so much socialization is needed if the dog is stable anyway, compared to simply spending time with the dog, exposing him to some things, and building a bond with him through training. I don't think that not letting people pet your dog out in public will result in aggressive, out of control dogs. I think that as long as a dog recognizes you as its leader it will automatically assume that if you're okay, then all's okay.

If I had a baby, I wouldn't want everybody to come over n go "aww how cute" and pinch his cheeks.

If I had a 5 year old that I just told "no you can't have candy", I don't want someone to give him a cookie.

If I had a fat son, I wouldn't want people to come tell me "your boy looks fat, you should put him on a diet".

If I took my hypothetical 3 year old into a store, I wouldn't let him touch everything in the store without asking because a) it's not his property, b) it's not my property, c) he needs to learn to ask before he touches.

So why is it so hard for people to ask before touching my dog, tell their kids to ask before touching, stop giving him treats, and telling me he looks skinny? He's not a toy, and if he was... I don't like sharing! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

This thread is just so confusing, it's not even about socialization, it's simply about why some people choose not to let other people pet their dogs. Some people just want to be asked permission, other people don't want to allow it at all, and some people just don't give a damn. I don't care that my neighbor lets everyone in the neighborhood pet their border collie and they don't care that I only let certain people pet my dog. My dog doesn't bite, he loves everyone, he loves attention, he loves other dogs, he doesn't mind being poked in the nose by 2 year olds and if you step on his tail he'll just jump up and move instead of bite. Just because he doesn't bite doesn't mean that everyone should be allowed to touch him. It's my choice, if you want to look at it from a legal standpoint, he's my property, you don't go into peoples yards and pet their lawn ornaments without asking do you?

My opinion: NOBODY should pet your dog, especially if it's a PP dog. Socialization is one thing, petting is another. Letting a stranger put their hands on your dog puts him under submission, where he should never be with anyone except his master. I don't even think dogs like to be pet anyway.

I think most people treat their dogs like a teddy bear, tempted to pet them because their cute & cuddly. I also think most people would be a completely different person around their dogs if they didn't have any fur. The fur is there for a reason, and it's not your blanket, lol.