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Just to add... I dont think that prong is bad... I just think that it can be done without it.. that is all.
Call me old school if you want. I think that it can be used on dogs and work just fine no harm done... I just chose not to.

Isn't old school the complete opposite? When someone says old school I think of hardcore compulsion.

If you can work with my dog without a prong then more power to ya, but don't be surprised if he ignores you when his nose is buried in the grass <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Sure using food rewards is great, but no food = no listen.

Hi Mike,

I'm with ya on the prong thing; I welcome anyone to try to get my dog to even acknowledge their existance without one. I was leery of it at first-I mean, it just LOOKS CRUEL! But when you look at it next to a regular choke, well, at least it has a stopping point. The choke just keeps pinching, while the prong makes a point, and does it evenly. I tried every collar, and the prong is the only one that helps at all. Caleb will still ignore you while wearing a choke; he just gags and coughs more since he's having a tough time breathing. As soon as I slip the prong on him, though, he knows it's work time.

I dont use any food rewards... the prong was not introduced in my home town till my dog reached age of 3 years old, I am not saying that my dog was like a wish to come true... but never ignored me.. did you get you pup older? i start train when the dog arrives to my house, heals by the age of 6 mos and listenes without the leash by 8 mos...
You are more than velcome to visit me I dont get it I am no miracle trainer, nor i have miracle dogs...
Must be the luck... I was told by a lot of people...
I will meet with you any time show you my dogs and even talk to you about a lot of different things in training..
I love to find people with new methods, keep educating myself.
Yes you are right old style was very forcefull... what I ment no new things like e collar or prong, or shock..
I used leash to correct my dog that was all. End tell you the truth.. we made mistakes while at trial.

MAybe it is just the bond you can have with your dog... My dog trusted me 100% he even jumped of off a train while moving.. not fast but still moving. Things like that.
My friends at the club had told me many times that we had a very strong bond.. maybe that is the difference..
And I do know that there are dogs that are more stuborn and independent...

Ed,

What an excellent article.. It has been a long time since I have been on the site but everytime I log in, something new and of great importance get posted.

You should copy write this and publish it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Regards,

Rashmi

Hallo guys, I wrote something I did not mean before and I want to appologize to everyone...Sorry about that...
Ed Thanks for pointing it out
Sorry

Ed's Comments edited in:

It is really nice that you did this. Sometimes a language issue results in things being said in a way they were not meant. Glad we got this worked out.

Ed

Ed, Thanks so much for your very informative article! Watching your DVD, E-collar Training for Pet Owners, combined with this article has certainly given me more confidence with my corrections. I have a real hang-up about unfair corrections with my dogs!! Before I could use an ecollar or prong on my dog I had to try it on myself first. With both of these training aids it is basically up to the dog. They can pay attention with a correction that in nothing more than a reminder or they can make it really hard on themselves. With high-drive intense dogs you have to have control or at least with my dog I do!!


Informed fair owners certainly makes for happier dogs. I know how much you love dogs and I know that this is important to you. Since not all puppies go to professional trainers I commend you on your effort to at least give us some simple instructions!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Good job!!

Regards,
Debbie

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....I have a real hang-up about unfair corrections with my dogs!! ....Informed fair owners certainly makes for happier dogs. ......I commend you on your effort to at least give us some simple instructions!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Good job!!.....Regards, Debbie

A brief addition to my posted appreciation of this article: Finally I understand the avoidance/escape training theory. I've been following the looooong posts about this method on the forum, but thought I might be missing some point.

Now I see that it is what I gathered it was, and I appreciate the article's clarity about it --- confirmation that it's not for me.

I learn more on this site and this forum than on all the others I follow, combined.

Thanks for the great article Ed,

I learned a lot of definitions that I did not know. (like escape training). The details and order that you follow on your article make it possible even to the least experienced in training dogs to understand.

I especially liked the e-collar training methods that you use.

Regards
Baton

Martina, after reading your posts I'm really confused.
How the heck do you train your dog if you do not use food or corrections. but then I guess you do use corrections you have mentioned a couple of times you smack your dog. do you not feel this is cruel, I would think that a well executed correction with a prong with the proper force needed for the dog would be a more humane correction then hitting your dog. But then again that's just my opinion! I train 99% motivational (food, praise) but I also agree that a well placed correction at the right time is most definetly needed for fine tuning dogs behaviours at some point in their training. Please keep an open mind and don't judge prematurely!

Ed, great article!!! Something every dog owner should read!!

Hi Petra, No I dont smack my dog... as matter of fact the only time we had a little missunderstanding was when he decided that he was not gonna share his food.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I use just the leash correction and voice.. I dont have to yell just raise my voice.. Ed called it softer dog I believe in the article.. I try to look for certain behavior already in a Puppy, like who is the boss, when and how and the fact I am always the first unless he has petmission. I have no experience in training with other collars.. or no collar but flat one. And the so called Trainers made my dog to squeel like a pig by putting on an ecollar.. was a horrible sight, But I believe one thing, If an owner knows how to use it, there should be no harm. I just never seen it used properly. And had luck with not needing it. But I will promise one thing to myself I will sure look into it more and educate myself and I wrote that before... I just tried to understand.