I don't think I'd feel safe with that vet either <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I hope Ben's hydroma heels fast. Sounds painful.

The Perdue link you dropped is interesting. It seems to back up the poodle breeders findings. With the studies that have taken place, I'm surprised there aren't any more articles on the topic. What I found most surprising on that graph was that rottweilers only were rated at 1.1. I would have figured they'd be rated higher because they're a broad chested breed.

Ruth, I'm sorry to hear about your GSD <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> My mother was the same way with vets and immunizations. I have to talk to her before she goes to the vet or she'll buy whatever they tell her to. Her dog is only about 7 pounds and I had to convince her she was going to kill the poor thing with immunizations if she didn't pay attention. The Leerburg vaccine protocol sounds like a wise choice.

barbara, i think purdue lost their funding for the bloat project, and so the vaccine connection was never followed up on. (who knows, maybe that's why they lost their funding? somebody out there i.e., the vaccination industry, surely could have a lot to lose if that research thread were followed.

the risk factor in body type is not width of chest, but depth of chest. it's a long, narrow chest that is the problem. think borzois, irish setters, pointers. wide-bodied retreivers are less susceptible.

also, you may note that mastiffs, which we know have the high risk body type--the breed standard calls for height from depth of body, not length of leg--are not on the purdue list for most at risk.

that is because their findings are from dogs that breeders volunteered for the study. no mastiffs participated in the study. hence, no data on mastiffs.

does the leerburg vaccination protocol follow the recommendations of jean dodds?

the issue with vaccines seems to be giving them too young, using live virus instead of killed, and combining vaccines. i seem to remember that the current dodds protocol still has these problems. but i haven't looked it up lately.

additional thought:

if we take the poodle breeder's hypothesis and combine it with the body type correlation, we would say that the wrong vaccine protocol results in subclinical distemper which damages the function of peristalsis which causes bloat.

and then, once the dog has bloated, if it is a deep-chested, long waisted dog, the ligaments of the stomach have a lot of room to stretch, and this makes torsion of the bloated stomach much more likely.

i wish someone would fund the research for this....

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barbara, i think purdue lost their funding for the bloat project, and so the vaccine connection was never followed up on. (who knows, maybe that's why they lost their funding? somebody out there i.e., the vaccination industry, surely could have a lot to lose if that research thread were followed.......

The big research money is in the hands of the manufacturers, whether we talk about commercial pet foods or pharmaceutical houses.

I spend hours every week on research (mainly involving those two areas), and there is no question in my mind at all that research that ends up funded and well-published is usually paid for by an entity with a financial interest.

I used to think that people who said such things were loony conspiracy theorists. Boy, was I naive (read "stupid"). <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Didn't Fort Dodge, a subsidiary of Wyeth pull their "miraculous" 6-month heartworm shot, Pro Heart (moxidectin) off the market in the U.S. I believe the F.D.A. was somehow involved. The drug caused rapid onset anemia and was responsible for many dog deaths-- terrible deaths. I cannot find the link. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I seem to remember they then were marketing it as some sort of life saving drug in Africa or somewhere for humans. Connie, if I could figure out how to "quote" on here I would quote what you said about the big drug companies and research in general. So true. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

unfortunately, this is a serious problem in virtually all scientific research today, not just pharmaceuticals. good reporters know that when a new scientific discovery or paper is released, you always check to see who funded it. there is almost always a special interest in the background. as they say, "follow the money."

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Didn't Fort Dodge, a subsidiary of Wyeth pull their "miraculous" 6-month heartworm shot, Pro Heart (moxidectin) off the market in the U.S. I believe the F.D.A. was somehow involved. The drug caused rapid onset anemia and was responsible for many dog deaths-- terrible deaths. I cannot find the link. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I seem to remember they then were marketing it as some sort of life saving drug in Africa or somewhere for humans. Connie, if I could figure out how to "quote" on here I would quote what you said about the big drug companies and research in general. So true. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You go to the message you want to reply to, and hit "quote" instead of "reply" and then add your response under the quoted message in the new box that comes up. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/2004/ANS01312.html
http://www.dogsadversereactions.com/moxidectin/moxidectinpage.html
http://www.showdog-magazine.com/Articles/proheart-recall.htm

The FDA doesn't really give two hoots if people are dropping dead, much less dogs. If the drug company pays up, that's all that matters. Until the evidence ( i.e. dead and injured people becomes overwhelming and the class action law-suits start.

I dont know a lot about this subject, however most of the best vets I have used have come across as somewhat arrogant, blunt, and unfriendly people. Once I got to know them I realised that they were actually great people. If he's a great vet I could handle rude.

Incidently some of the nicest vets I've met have been absolutely useless at their job....