James: I somehow doubt this thread is going to go back on topic.

Yuko: The US constitution is there for a reason, even as a non-american I can see that. Gun registration is unconstitutional. When we start trying to determine how the constitution applies "today", we start erroding at it, and start edging toward (I think it was) Jefferson's prophecy of every good democracy needing a revolution every 200 (might be different, I'm very rusty) years.

As for cops being able to look at a database and say with any definition that there is no guns in the house - that in some areas of the USA would result in a lot of dead cops. Cops in bad areas must enter EVERY house as if it has firearms inside.

Australia has much stricter gun control than the USA (or even Canada if I understand your laws correctly), and there's still a bunch of gangland violence going on. The UK has some pretty strict gun control too, that works really well for them.

Switzerland is being torn apart by gun violence because of the proliferation of firearms there. Yep.

You said it yourself, criminals aren't known for following the rules. Taking the weapons away from the people who only ever shoot at targets or animals doesn't help anyone, regardless of whatever some shill cops say. You'll also find some cops who'll say that lowering the speed limit on Street X helps slow the speeders down - no it doesn't, it just increases the amount by which they're breaking the law, but is a pain in the arse for everyone else.

But as I said even in a previous post, even if you could convince me gun control was a good idea - I can't imagine how you'd convince me it's relevant to this thread.

 Quote: red thomas

For the record, I believe Marcia and Yoko are probably nice people who hate to see suffering, just like the rest of us.

The Dumb gun owner remark hit a raw nerve down here because as a gun owner I get blamed for crime/death statistics that are so manipulated they should out saying "Once-upon-a-time, ..."

It's like the guy who accused me of being a racist because Jäger is a GSD and the police used GSDs on protesters in Selma AL.




Dennis, you know that's me and Jäger (a.k.a. Goober) in your pic, right?

No I didn't know that, It's floating all over the web now, you want me to stop using it?

Alright then, Yuko. Listen to a police officer (me).

Whenever I respond to a house alarm, or someone who thinks they heard someone in their house, the dispatcher sometimes relays information similar to this:

"Mother locked upstairs in bedroom with kids".

Why? Because we patrol their neighborhoods 24 hours a day, we always have great radio reception, we're never down on reports, and we're always very close by. Heh.

At best I'm usually about 5 minutes away. A lot can happen in 5 minutes, not the least of which the breaching of a flimsy interior door.

Why do so many people not take it upon themselves to equalize themselves against the violent and evil of the world? Because, of course, guns are "dangerous" and they themselves don't want to hurt or kill someone, intentionally or accidentally.

Nice, in theory.

Problem is, when they are in trouble they call people *with guns* to save their cowering a$$. There's almost something immoral about that. Effectively paying someone to do that which you would find personally repugnant and unthinkable. Kind of like the Pharisees ceding the responsibility to Pilate for the punishment of Christ. "Hey, I didn't kill the guy. I just called for help and it happened." As if the possibility didn't cross their minds that armed people wading into unknown danger wouldn't use them. Bah.

Let's make an attempt to return this to dogs anyway.

People ask me why I "Need" guns just like they ask me why I "Need" a big vicious dog. Even though Goober is specifically trained not to bite without context and provocation, I still get blamed for future crimes I might commit based soley on the imagination of a person who know's nothing about PPD training.

Well socialized and trained APBT, Rotties, GSDs, and their responsible owners get punished because the owner of the garage had deadly weapons laying around his business and they "Just went off". There really is a paralell here. Gun control advocates seek to make innocents safe by outlawing certain makes models and strictly regulating who can own them. Breed ban people use exactly the same arguments and tactics to curb the violence wrought by vicious dogs who are more dangerous than guns. A bullet will go in a straight line hit or miss. The untrained agressive dog will lock on to a target and launch on it's own. I simply submit the dog's a larger threat once you take the cooked statistics in to account..

Dennis:
No, don't remove it, I'm flattered and wanted to tease you a bit.

Steven -

I don't know if Yuko is against gun ownership - She just supported gun registration as an effective tool against gun related crimes........I think.

 Quote: yuko blum

As Canadians, we have the special privilege of being close neighbours to you Americans. That's why we can see that for the most part you're excellent, honourable and well-intentioned people, despite your nation's (often) astonishing arrogance and lack of diplomacy in domestic and international matters.

Yuko, you should have stopped after the word, "people".

OK, back to pitbulls...Since there are so many sickening stories of pit bull attacks, is there something to be done that is effective in lowering the numbers of attacks, fatal or otherwise?

Example:

If I have to be licensed to own my gun, maybe I should need a special license to own a pitbull? Heck even the Dept. of Motor Vehicles asks me what I plan on doing w/my car when I register it . Insurance companies ask what I plan on doing w/my car when I apply for insurance . Why can't there be something in place that requires proof of the environment the pit bull is going to. I know this isn't really the answer, I'm just opening up the floor for comments.

Years ago, everyone owned a gun but there things changed and now you need to be "checked out". At least here anyway. Maybe not in Texas. Not sure. The point, maybe something should change regarding pit bull ownership.

I would like to hear from someone like Valerie or anyone who has experience in pitbull ownership. How does something described by so many as "so sweet" turn up in the news so often with such grisly, awful details?? If you, pitbull owner (like Valerie), could snap your fingers and change the pitbull environment we live in today, what would you do?

Will, they used to make a sort of handgun ammunition that had shot in it, like a shotgun shell. The top of the bullet was clear and you could see the pellets. It worked for a regular .38 revolver that my ex husband had when he worked in animal control on the East Coast. It was a true one-shot stopper, but it wouldn't go through walls like a regular bullet. Do they still make them? Id' think they'd be very good when carrying a weapon in the city.

Janice - I've shot rounds like that before - excellent idea!

 Quote:

If I have to be licensed to own my gun, maybe I should need a special license to own a pitbull?

I assume that the bad owners with pit bulls just wouldn't register.

 Quote:

I would like to hear from someone like Valerie or anyone who has experience in pitbull ownership. How does something described by so many as "so sweet" turn up in the news so often with such grisly, awful details??

I've never had a pitbull or any of the other breeds that usually fall under the ban, but my aunt had two. One of them was very sweet, they other they had to put away when I visited (I was just a kid). As we all know, every dog is different and each breeds have tendencies towards certain traits - my terrier would bark all day if I let her, and my vizsla sticks to me like glue. It's when those characteristics (if inherited) get out of hand that you see problems. Because of poor breeding, some pitbulls have tendencies towards aggression, and with a poor pack leader, it's not hard for them to slip into that.

So a dog that has inherited that tendency towards aggression (not all of them do) might be fine in the hands of someone like Valerie, might show some aggression in the hands of my well-meaning but not dog-savvy aunt, and will show extreme aggression in the hands of some punk kid who wants a tough dog. That's what I think anyway.

As for the news, they love pitbull attacks. Statistically there are other breeds that have more bites reported, but who cares about a cocker spaniel bite, and who wants to hear about a lab bite, unless it ripped someone's entire face off.

 Quote:

If you, pitbull owner (like Valerie), could snap your fingers and change the pitbull environment we live in today, what would you do?

The laws in Canada are a little different, but first I'd ban the sale of animals in pet stores (that'd be easy to regulate since most of our pet stores are in malls), then I'd update our animal-cruelty legislation (which hasn't been changed since the 1800s), and I'd kill our BSL, which isn't doing anything for us at all - because only the responsible owners follow the laws anyway. That's just a start, though.



On a final note, and this isn't directed at you Judy, it's for everyone - as a Canadian, I'm a little disappointed with the Canada-bashing in this thread. Someone expressed an opinion that wasn't widely accepted on this forum - please, can't we just discuss that specific opinion and not attack an entire country?

 Quote: judy troiano

I would like to hear from someone like Valerie or anyone who has experience in pitbull ownership. How does something described by so many as "so sweet" turn up in the news so often with such grisly, awful details?? If you, pitbull owner (like Valerie), could snap your fingers and change the pitbull environment we live in today, what would you do?

I believe that we see pit bulls so often in the news because the reputation of the breed draws a lot of questionable people to them. If all these "questionable people" that owned pits switched to a different breed, I think we would see the same problems begin to develop with their new breed of choice.

There are not enough responsible pit owners like Valerie.