Quote: Jan Williamson

Variety does not necessary make a raw diet better. How many of us DID feed the same kibble over and over and over for years before we knew better? Did our dogs complain? How many of them also refused to eat when a different kibble was put down?

Ok this is just too easy Jan. My female shepherd refused EVERY SINGLE one of her kibble meals until she was on the brink of starvation. We used to have to buy the canned stuff, heat it up and mix that in with her kibbles to get her to eat. Even so she'd eat maybe 3 bites every two days.

We tried the tough-love method by putting down dry kibble only for 15 minutes a day and taking it away after that time. She went 7 days without eating a single bite and lost 10 lbs.
Her ribs and spine were sticking out and she was acting like a dying dog. We figured it wasn't worth it and went back to adding canned food just so she wouldn't starve herself.

She has NEVER, not once, refused a raw meal.
For the first time in 10 years she's thrilled at meal time and actually eats her food.

As for the variety issue, as I said in a previous post, you're right that dogs can do just fine on 3 protein sources.

However, I'd be lying if I said that adding variety doesn't make a difference, because it does! There's no question that it does.
I've seen the results for myself in my older dog.

It all comes down to availability and how much effort one is willing to put into their dog.

If someone only feeds 3 protein sources, I certainly won't judge them and they're already feeding a better diet than any kibble could provide.
However, if that same person really wants their dog to be at its very best health and vitality, then yes, I will recommend to them that they add in as much variety as they can.

I'm SO glad this thread was started. I have been really and I mean REALLY wanting to start raw, but am scared to do it. My brother just adopted a 4 yr old English Bulldog who can really benefit from raw. I have been pushing him, a 1st time dog owner to get started on raw and I haven't even had the balls to do it myself yet. SO, my dogs kibble bag is nearly empty and I want to start raw in the next few days. To make this easy on me (and my bro) can someone give me an example of a easy starter diet? A list of what I will need to buy. My dog is a 1 yr old Boxer, about 55 lbs. Thanks.

 Quote: Alex Corral

I'm SO glad this thread was started. I have been really and I mean REALLY wanting to start raw, but am scared to do it. My brother just adopted a 4 yr old English Bulldog who can really benefit from raw. I have been pushing him, a 1st time dog owner to get started on raw and I haven't even had the balls to do it myself yet. SO, my dogs kibble bag is nearly empty and I want to start raw in the next few days. To make this easy on me (and my bro) can someone give me an example of a easy starter diet? A list of what I will need to buy. My dog is a 1 yr old Boxer, about 55 lbs. Thanks.

http://www.leerburg.com/diet2.htm

http://leerburg.com/feedingarawdiet.htm

Don’t forget fish oil plus Vitamin E.

Good move, IMHO.

Refusing food is not the issue – variety, or the lack thereof, is.

 Quote: yuko blum

As for the variety issue... I'd be lying if I said that adding variety doesn't make a difference, because it does! There's no question that it does.

It all comes down to availability and how much effort one is willing to put into their dog...

However, if that same person really wants their dog to be at its very best health and vitality, then yes, I will recommend to them that they add in as much variety as they can.

Adding variety makes a difference to what? or whom? Animal protein is animal protein, etc. You can change the shape of your RMBs, but why do you have to change the source? For what purpose?

(Intentionally ignoring "it all comes down to... how much effort one is willing to put into their dog" statement.)

Again, can you explain how variety equates to optimum health and vitality?

There was a time when we didn’t know the amino acid profiles of different proteins, or which EFAs were richly supplied in which protein sources.

We didn’t know that poultry and white fish were particularly “efficient” protein sources, or that wild fish were a better source of Omega 3s than farmed fish.

We didn’t know that iron, selenium, zinc, and B vitamins were better-supplied in certain red meats, or about the nutritional differences in grass-fed meat.

We didn’t know about the problem with feeding a lot of raw egg whites without the yolks.

Variety makes discoveries like these less vital to an individual’s diet. And I mean just the variety in the average raw-feeder's choices.

Reasonable variety is (IMHO) good insurance. Again, I think the common poultry plus some red meat plus maybe eggs, fish, or whatever, is a good variety.

I'm ignoring "how much effort one is willing to put into their dog" too. I assume it was not directed towards raw feeders in general, a lot of whom put more effort into their dogs' diets than some humans put into their own.

 Quote: Alex Corral

I'm SO glad this thread was started. I have been really and I mean REALLY wanting to start raw, but am scared to do it. My brother just adopted a 4 yr old English Bulldog who can really benefit from raw. I have been pushing him, a 1st time dog owner to get started on raw and I haven't even had the balls to do it myself yet. SO, my dogs kibble bag is nearly empty and I want to start raw in the next few days. To make this easy on me (and my bro) can someone give me an example of a easy starter diet? A list of what I will need to buy. My dog is a 1 yr old Boxer, about 55 lbs. Thanks.

You will be so happy (not to mention your dogs!)when you switch. Not only will the dogs be much healthier, energetic and really eat all of their food, you'll find you have less clean up and fewer vet bills if they have allergies. In the long run, you do benefit from going to raw. I just changed my dogs diet nearly a month ago and I already see the benefits. I'm not sorry I switched.
You couldn't have come to a better place for advise. This board alone helped me make up my mind.

Enrique, you said go to a produce store where they sell wholesale. Ignoring the fact that I thought produce meant fruit and veggies ( ), how would I go about finding one? Look under wholesale food? Produce wholesalers?

I'm really interested to see where this thread is going, because I'll be honest, I really only have access to chicken right now, and possibly turkey. I suppose I could get canned fish occassionally...I can get fresh fish in the summer, easy. My dog will be fed Striped Bass, which will make my father crazy as it's horribly expensive and tasty! But people throw it at me all summer!

Is only doing chicken really bad? Right now a butcher is my only option (that I know of). I've put the word out for hunters, but the well is dry.

If I want to add beef...what parts should I ask the butcher for? There must be "junk" cuts (meaning things people wouldn't eat that I can ask for. Any suggestions? Someone said ground beef is bad...even occassionally is bad?!?! Ergh. Just when I thought I was ready!

This is going to sound strange, but what about feeder mice?

My biggest problem is living in a place with a small year round population which = less options.

Amber, the beauty about raw feeding is NOT fretting over what to feed. You are fine with chicken backs and necks and turkey necks. Canned sardines and mackeral are also good choices. Hamburger is a good choice, but it does contain more fat than, say, ground turkey, but either one is fine.

Don't get "junk" beef or meat that "people wouldn't eat". You want to feed human-grade food - exactly what we would eat! Beef heart is an excellent choice for muscle meat. My dogs have trouble with beef ribs - too much bone and not enough meat and the bones are almost hard enough to be considered recreational. Pork necks and riblets are a good choice if you can find them.

Throw in some eggs and yogurt if you want, but don't forget the fish oil and vitamin E.

The important part is don't stress. What you have available at the time is perfectly fine.

You will NEVER be sorry you switched.

So when hamburger is recommended as in the Leerburg article, I assumed it was just ground beef? How many times do you feed your dogs now and where? I'm not too sure I want to have to lay a tarp in my kitchen to feed my dog. Or taking her outside is not always possible. I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible. From my understanding, the simplest, plain-jane raw is better than high quality kibble. When I get better at it, i'll add more to it, but right now I'm just trying not to overwhelm myself.