Sorry wrong link.
But at any rate, you can lift the front feet of almost all dogs off the ground using any collar, if that is, your TRAINING has failed and you need control.

Timing is still everything if the dog is going to learn anything at all. Be it fear based or territory, or in this case of what I think is just an untrained brat.

Randy

And I might add,
Choking out a dog because one is to lazy or ignorant to train properly is abuse, plain and simple.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

uhhh thanks for your opinion? everyone's got one i guess...

 Quote: randy allen

And I might add,
Choking out a dog because one is to lazy or ignorant to train properly is abuse, plain and simple.

I agree. But using a DD collar to calm a frenetic dog so that you CAN train is something else.

Yeah Jenn,
I know nothing.

So enlightenment me, how exactly does the magic potion of a ddc calm a frantic dog?

Randy

 Quote: randy allen

Sorry wrong link.

Randy

I just checked and http://leerburg.com/746.htm is the URL for the dominant dog collar page. If it won't click through you can get to it by clicking on Dog Training Equipment in the side bar, then Collars > Dominant Dog Collar. The page IS very informative.

Two points I'd respectfully offer for consideration. First, you commented earlier in this thread;
"Then I'd go on line and buy a good pinch collar. After I received my collar, I'd go for a walk and the first time the little brat acted out would be the beginning of the last time it'd happen".
Now maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant, but IMO jerking the snot out of the dog with a prong collar can be more abusive than judicious use of a DD collar.

Second, as others have also pointed out, a harsh prong collar correction can just escalate inappropriate behavior in some dogs and situations. The DD collar avoids this. It's not an instant fix for anything, and like any collar it's not a substitute for actually training, but it can be a useful tool. Or so I have found.

 Quote: randy allen

Sorry wrong link.
But at any rate, you can lift the front feet of almost all dogs off the ground using any collar, if that is, your TRAINING has failed and you need control.

Timing is still everything if the dog is going to learn anything at all. Be it fear based or territory, or in this case of what I think is just an untrained brat.

Randy

Here's the link:
http://leerburg.com/746.htm

I'm not sure in this particular case what part of this is being referred to, though:

QUOTE: If you have a problem with dog aggression or a dominant dogs I would recommend that you get my DVD titled Dealing with Dominant and Aggressive Dogs and go to my article section and read what I have written about Dominant and Aggressive dogs.

I assume that people who use this collar for handler aggression have run their dog through the pack structure program I outline in my DVD's. ..... Killing a dog should ALWAYS be the last resort. Using these collars can and will make the difference between having to put a dog down or ending up as a pack leader and a dog the you can live with. END partial quote

Yeah Sarah,
You left the preamble off that quote.
Let's read the whole thing.

quote: I'd work hard on the ob away from distractions until I was sure it knew them. Then I'd go on line and buy a good pinch collar. After I recieved my collar, I'd go for a walk and the first time the little brat acted out would be the beginning of the last time it'd happen.

And then: Do not let it get to that point.
Timing, timing, timing.
Should be every handlers mantra and prayer at bedtime.



Rather changes the tenor, doesn't it.
Randy

 Quote: sarah ward

A DD collar IME is a really useful tool for *some* dogs in *some* situations. However, if what you are seeing is a fear reaction I would not use one. You would need a different approach.

 Quote: sarah ward

.... And how much basic obedience have you done/do you do with her? Does she know and respond to commands like "Watch me"? You mentioned "treat training" - do you mean marker training?

 Quote: jennifer mullen

... Speaking of timing and corrections - Jenn, in a previous thread we'd discussed giving your dog something to do (different obedience commands, for instance) instead of reacting and getting corrected - giving her a positive rather than the negative - again, timing is a big thing there which is what made me think of it. How is that going? It can be a bit frustrating but it's really worthwhile

 Quote: randy allen

... As to your problem with the dog; I'd work hard on the ob away from distractions until I was sure it knew them.

 Quote: jenn verrier

.... jennifer- yes sometimes i will pull her over to the side and have her sit, stay,and "watch' i hold the treat up by my eyes. but sometimes my dog will sense my actions of pulling her aside and trying to work with her, as "hey i know something is up here" and will start to seek out whatever it is she thinks i am trying to distract her from. i try to do it at random times as well in hopes that she will not associate it in that manner. it does just take a lot of patience and time, and can get tricky and exhausting at times!

A whole lot more of this: i try to do it at random times as well in hopes that she will not associate it in that manner is what I would recommend. As mentioned earlier by Steve and Randy and others, focus on you and basic ob are practiced and practiced until it's default behavior. It starts indoors, and then it moves to another room indoors, and then maybe to a room with distractions, and then to a very quiet outdoor spot, and so on. It doesn't have to be "tricky," but it does take patience.

The idea is not to flood the reactive dog with dogs all around and do a little focus work at random times. The idea is to work up to the kind of focus and obedience the dog needs to lessen her reactivity.

I guess that I too am reading a whole lot about collars and not enough about foundation work. (Yes, I get it that this thread is in the equipment forum. ) How in the world is this a situation that calls for choking out the dog?

Jenn, the focus on you needs lots of reinforcement. It sounds like you have the idea, but that the exercises are being worked on in high-distraction areas way before they are "ready to take on the road."

Can you tell us how you do marker work? For example, "watch me"?

 Quote: randy allen

And I might add,
Choking out a dog because one is to lazy or ignorant to train properly is abuse, plain and simple.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

At risk of being one of those people who constantly harps on about how Randy's right....Randy's right.

Am I completely off? Aren't dominant dog collars supposed to be primarily used with hard, dominant, handler-aggressive dogs? Dogs that are potentially a threat to their handler? Dogs that, if you ACTUALLY need to use a dominant dog collar, you probably shouldn't be asking for help on the internets (not that we aren't great here, but).

This dog is none of those things! This dog can be worked with in other ways, without going to this extreme. We're talking about a 12lb dog, and while I love the little guys, especially terriers, with a hell of a lot of attitude, I just don't see how this could possibly be a situation where a dominant dog collar is called for.

Edited by Jennifer Mullen (05/13/2009 08:42 PM)
Edit reason: fixed 'shouldn't'