My point was only to tell Maxlee that if that is the type of advice she is seeking, she will not find it here. Nothing inaccurate about that, IMHO. That I agree with. As per previous posts.
So there is no such thing as positive training? I have a hard time getting my head around that. Is there maybe a way to define levels of compulsion then - or is it just those who use "higher" - or whatever is the term for it - compulsion feel everything is compulsion?
Yes, there are levels of compulsion. However, there are some who would rather not admit that. Purely positive is a utopia. It just doesn't exist. An example, using clicker or other 'positive' approaches you are supposed to ignore the incorrect behavior. You have a dog seeking attention however, it is incorrect so it is ignored. You try and 'compel' the dog to make the correct decision at which point it is rewarded. What about all the time it took for the dog to decide to do it? Was that all purely positive for the dog? No! The reward must have been greater than what the dog was feeling otherwise there is no reward. So the basis of that type of training is putting the dog into a place it doesn't like so it can get the reward and feel good about itself.
People are trying to do the same things to our kids. Eliminating tag and so forth as it damages the childs self esteem. AARRRRGGHHH!!!
Yes Laureen, I would have to say it is to degrees.. but even in those "all-positive" clicker classes, people are told to push the dogs rear down when teaching the sit. If you want to get technical that is compulsion. Some methods are more inducive than others but in the end your dog will not be as reliable if it has not encountered SOME compulsion in its life.
As a side note, people are seeming a little defensive about this thread. Lets keep a cool head and not take things personally ok?
I'm not sure a "pure positive" zealot would agree that not praising a dog is compulsion, but I've personally heard several talk about withholding food.
I'm not anti-positive, but withholding food can not be considered "positive" in my way of thinking.
As for most on this board being anti-positive, anti-cookie, etc etc, it might just be that MOST here are training working dogs. I have YET!! YET!!! YET!! to see ANYWHERE in this country, or any other I've gone to a Police K-9 who's been trained "pure-positive." Show me one single working Police Service Dog(Patrol) that can pass our certification who has NEVER been trained with a correction, compulsion or negatives and I'll pay them $1000, plus travel expenses. Any takers???
Show me one single working Police Service Dog(Patrol) that can pass our certification who has NEVER been trained with a correction, compulsion or negatives and I'll pay them $1000, plus travel expenses. Any takers???
It would be worth more than that. The first time a bad guy even tried to hit the dog it is no longer eligible. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
OK - thanks - I do not use a clicker - hated it - or treats or toys in training. I do not withold food, I do not use prongs or chokes or pinches. I do not push rears down but I do place a hand on the ass end when I ask them to sit initially.
Josh - I do not have K9s - these are family pets and rescues I pull from shelters so it is not that relevant to my world. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Hey - off topic - sorry - do you know who is the broker in NY for imported Czech line PSDs - supplying as I am told the majority of police forces in Ontario or Canada or maybe a larger area? I have the name somewhere from my discussions today with the K9 unit and more info - but am not sure where I put my papers when I got home. I thought he said Akron but I am sure it must have been Albany. Thanks.
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