My point isn't really about where the dog took the shoes from, its about teaching the dog that he is not to touch the damn things! I think we are all underestimating a dogs intellectual ability. You can't always "catch a dog in the act" all of the time. I am not expecting the dog to remember or reason back in time. What I'm trying to say is If you are saying that the dog can remember all this stuff then he can comprehend the fact that he's not supposed to do it. This stuff about the dog thinking you are scolding him for you coming home is driving me nuts. We are not talking about un-fairly scolding a puppy for eliminating in the house after the fact. If you came home and your dog didn't take your shoes would you have a reason to get upset? You'd be happy as hell to see your dog. Geez, I'm wasting my time on this one.

I don't think I'm explaining myself well. When I go back and read my posts, I understand how it sounds like I'm fighting every sound principle ever established. That's not really what I'm trying to do. This is an open exchange of ideas and unfortunately I am not explaining mine too well. I'll just quit while I have the chance!LOL

My dog used to steal dirty underwear when he was a pup. I thought it was sooo cute! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> This little black furball diving to the back of his crate, turning around and sitting with this gatchie hanging out of his mouth. After we stopped killing ourselves laughing we learned to put the dirty clothes in the laundry tub and close the door. He grew out of his little habit.

I don't necessarily think it's a dominance issue, but what do I know? Dogs enjoy smelly things and when they are alone they like things that smell like their favourite person. What could be more smelly than dirty socks and underwear and shoes? My dog when young frequently slept on my shoes, sometimes even sticking his entire nose in the shoe (I used to think he was unconscious from the fumes!!!) Tips on crating a dog that I have read are putting in an unwashed t-shirt with a dog that is going to experience air travel, sort of a comfort blanket.

If your dog isn't chewing on your shoes I would think it's either:
A) He enjoys having your smelly things around him
B) He's a bit miffed you've left without him but knows better than to chew on things so he just moves them around

Whatever the reason I think that it's sometimes unreasonable to expect some dogs to always resist temptation especially if they are not crated and you are not around. Mine does not steal anything anymore, but I place no restrictions on whether or not he can jump on the bed or the furniture. He has a lot of toys and plays with them. I do know of dogs who remove stuffed animals from a bed, cushions from a chair, slippers from a basket etc. They're not chewed up, just moved to a different spot.

Unless you have some sort of Remote Guided Laser/Electrical Shock/Water Gun System connected to a Video Surveillance System you should crate the dog or get better closet doors.
JMHO <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I think you are right about dogs likeing smelly things- or to put it better things that smell like you- I gave my pup a bone last night trying to get some down time and he kept getting up and laying down on my clothes in the bedroom- I would call him out and try to put him somewhere I could see him and he would go right back in and do the same thing- so I left him be-he just ate his bone and did not bother anything else.

I guess if it bothered me too much I could clean my bedroom- but where is the fun in that? Then again I think I just admitted to the whole board that I am really smelly- oh well its Friday

Canishe brought up a good point about it being unreasonable to expect the dog to resist temptation. I'll take it a step further and it goes back to what I said earlier. If its not a destructive issue in terms of chewing or something, then what's the big deal? I don't think this is always a dominance issue either. Unless you feel it is dominance or it involves destructive behavior then I would maybe lay low on it and pick your more important battles to win.

Just a side note on the whole dog thought proccess thing. Last night I was out at a gig and when I came home my wife told me that for some inexplicable reason my 14 month old Golden Retriever had an accident right outside my daughter's room. Now my sister in law was over visiting and was upstairs in my daughters room at the time so I can only suspect that it's possible he was marking some territory. This would be strange though since this dog dosen't have a dominant bone in his body. Anyway, I asked my wife if she caught him and yelled at him in any way. She said "no". The kid's were sleeping so she did not want to make a big deal about it. She basically ignored the dog, sent him downstairs and cleaned it up. So this morning, I went up to the spot to blast it with some more nature's miracle. Before I did anything, I called my dog upstairs in a positive voice. He walked up the stairs, ears back and would not go near the spot he urinated in. Now I swear on my life to everyone who reads this that my voice and body language was completely positive. The dog clearly acted like he knew he did something. Of course I did not take it any further. I praised him for coming and that was that. Now either my wife lied to me and did scold him or what was the dog thinking? It does make me wonder...... :rolleyes: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

OK. And now back to the shoe theif! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Chuck, has the dog EVER been corrected for inappropriate defecation?

Anyway, I think we've established that we don't all think that it's neccessarily a dominance thing. Probably more of a comfort for him to have something that smells like Daddy. I remember one time when I was packing my gear to go on an overnight mountain rescue class, my Lab laid on the couch with his head on my fleece vest, watching me intently. It was like he knew that he was not going with me. I think there is no way to know for certain exactly how their minds work.

At any rate, this is a perfect example of owner absent misbehavior (if you decide that it is misbehavior). I have found, in my experience, that the simplest solution is the most effective: containment when home alone.

Only if caught in the act.

Why though would that matter? I can tell you that my dog would never associate being called over to being a negative thing. Had I had a negative tone or negative body language then I could see the point. The dog dosen't understand...he just knows I'm pissed about something. That wasn't the case. If anything, since the answer to your question is yes, only if caught in the act, then maybe...just maybe the dog knows he did something wrong?

Sorry, still believe it is dominance plan and simple. Shoes, underware and so forth all smell like you. Is there any doubt in the dogs mind whose they are?

I agree with Chuck. They are smarter than we think. I kind of liken it to going to a foreign country the people smile and nod, while the whole time in their native tongue they are cursing us out. The pup brings out the stuff(smiling and nodding) then proceeds to tell you what he thinks.

Also, you mention until it becomes destructive not a big deal. How many times does the dog have to ingest the shoe when you are not around before it is a dangerous situation?

I have found, in my experience, that the simplest solution is the most effective: containment when home alone. Now I am sure I have heard that somewhere before...oh yeah about my first post on this thread. CRATE!

Todd, I'm not convinced it is dominance in this case. I don't think that because a dog takes something that belongs to their superior, which has been left unattended, means that it is a bid for dominance or a lack of respect. It is extremely common, that when the superior leaves something unattended, the subordinate will take that as meaning that it is now available. They would never challenge the superior and actually attempt to take it from them, but when left lying around, it's fair game. When the superior returns and wants it, it is yielded without challenge. That is an act of submission. It is when the dog refuses to give it up that I see a dominance issue.

Now I am sure I have heard that somewhere before...oh yeah about my first post on this thread. CRATE!

Oh, and what is it with people lately feeling the need to take credit for being the first to suggest something? Who cares? I was agreeing with you. You're one of the few people I usually do agree with.

I do agree that dogs are smarter than many people give them credit for. Chuck, I think your wife must have projected some displeasure, even if she did not scold him. Ignoring and sending away in and of itself shows displeasure. It's social isolation, or ostracism, which is a powerful thing in the canine psyche. Plus, you said you were going to put more Nature's Miracle on the spot, which tells me that the spot was probably not completely gone. He could probably smell that spot from a mile away, and your attempt at luring him over there wasn't fooling him. Doesn't mean he "knows he did wrong" in the sense that he remembers actually crapping there, and knows it was wrong to crap there, it merely means that he knows that the presence of his "unmentionables" inside your house displeases you. For all a dog knows, a human's olfactory system is just as powerful as theirs. I still don't see the connection. But, I'm not saying it's impossible for him to know he did wrong, just that I'm not convinced that he understands it in the way that you describe.

Sorry if I sound crabby. I am. Not anyone's fault here, just one of those days. :rolleyes: